No good choice?

[HAL]

Can you lend insight into what is the best way to handle this situation?

You are on a broad reach, full main, 110 jib, moderate heel, some weather helm, moderate seas and you are starting to consider reefing. Then the wind without warning (no storm front or high-pressure shift) at least doubles in velocity.
The choices?
1.Allow a roundup into the wind, controlling it as best as you can to avoid an out of control broach. You have to deal with the turning force and the much-increased apparent wind to get head to the wind so you can reef.

2.Try to ride it out as you head more ddw to control heel and weather helm. You have to deal with the possibility of a high wind accidental jibe and having the wind pretty much dictate your course. Then at some point attempt to furl the jib and with less sail make the turn head to the wind for reefing.

3.Try to reef down wind in this hectic severely overpowered situation.

I guess basically I’m asking, instinct tells you up or down?

 

[sailingdog]

There are too many variables to say what would be the best choice.

It depends on what boat you're on—are you on a cruising catamaran, a full-keel heavy displacement monohull, a bulb keel racing monohull?? All of these handle the situation very differently. Certain boats deal with being over-canvased better than others. Certain boats do better running than heading into the wind. Likewise, some rigs are easier to reef or douse than others are.

You also have to consider how much searoom you have—if you have a lee shore imminent, then running isn't a very good option, is it??? If you've got 200 miles of clear water, then running becomes a decent option.

You also have to consider how long the storm will last, and how long you'll be in it—is this the result of a sudden summer afternoon thunderstorm, that will likely last only an hour or so; or is this a frontal storm that has finally shown up and may last for more than a day??? How you react for a short summer thunderstorm may be very different than what you do for a storm you'll have to deal with for a day or more.

What other gear do you have aboard? Do you have a sea anchor? Do you have a drogue? Either of these tools give you more options than not having them.

Do you have a good anchor, and is the water shallow enough for you to drop the hook—a lot of people overlook their anchor as a piece of safety gear. Often, if things go wrong, and you can drop the anchor and lie to it for a while, it gives you more options and time to use them than trying to deal with the problem immediately. Trying to reef the sails, while worrying about whether the boat is going to go aground on a nearby shoal, makes it much harder to do. If you've dropped the anchor, and are lying head to wind, reefing or dousing the sails becomes a lot simpler.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Assuming you have all sorts of sea room

If you're on a broad reach, I'm not sure where "moderate heel, some weather helm" would be in the "situation." You're almost going downwind.

If it was my boat, I'd furl the jib, which would slow me down, then decide if I wanted to turn up and either drop or reef the main.

Could be done with or without the engine. #2 makes no sense and is possibly dangerous.

We have Harken battcars and tracks on our mast and main sail, so we have a much wider range in which we can reef the main. Have done it going downwind with light airs, not in a blow. We have, however, successfully reefed the main on a beat by sailing on the jib, dropping the traveler, letting out a bit of mainsheet, and reefing the main that way. We have double line reefing. Did it singlehanded just last Friday.

 

[Tim R.]

I agree with Stu. You should not be rounding up on a broad reach normally. Ease your jib sheet to just before you get luffing and it should be very easy to furl. Now you only have the main to contend with. You have to decide can I continue under full main alone, reef the main and add some head sail or add some headsail without reefing the main.

BTW, there is no right answer here as boat capabilities, skipper's experience, sea state, sea room, etc all factor into what you will do. Most sailors learn this over time. The ones who don't buy powerboats.

 

[newly anonymous]

the wind never gusts "without warning." you just need to learn how to read the signs.

 

[Tim R.]

the wind never gusts "without warning." you just need to learn how to read the wind.

Around here it does. We have some high bluff along the harbor with no vegetation or other visual clues. Knowing how the shore affects the wind around here is a huge advantage for racers.

 

[newly anonymous]

the true sign of a rookie is letting the wind surprise you

Around here it does. We have some high bluff along the harbor with no vegetation or other visual clues. Knowing how the shore affects the wind around here is a huge advantage for racers.

I would agree that williwaws can be difficult to anticipate, but a good sailor will know where to watch for them, and under what conditions they happen.

I worked race committee at a national collegiate regatta a few years back with a buddy who won a silver medal in Olympic sailing. The wind had backed a bit and I asked whether he wanted me to reset the windward mark. He answered that we were going to have a righty in about three minutes. I looked but couldn't see it, and I'm a pretty fair hand at detecting wind shifts. Sure enough, the wind clocked three minutes later. I called him back and asked how he'd seen that, and he pointed out a small cloud that was still at least a mile away.

If the wind seems to be blasting you "without warning," find yourself a really competitive dinghy racer and ask for a few tips. It really doesn't happen to those in the know. At the most competitive levels, folks realize that anyone can maximize boat speed, it's the guy who first sees the shifts who usually wins.

 

[ghost]

I would do the quickest and easiest thing first which is to reduce sail.
Since you are already on a broad reach it would be a no brainer to furl in the jib.
After the jib is furled, re-asess the situation and make a decision;

1 continue sailing with a full main and have an exciting sail.
2 take down the main and call it a day.
3 reef the main and have a more comfortable sail.

 

[Ross]

Spilling the wind would be my first choice. That would reduce the heeling. The wind is rarely steady so when there came a lull I would have my next move planned.

 

[Todd Smith]

Keep control

!!! Avoid a gybe, whatever you do.

On a beam reach, maybe bear off to reduce heel and apparent wind. On a broad reach it won't have much effect to bear off. ( except to expose you to a gybe )

1) ease sheets, add twist, de-power your sails

2) Drop or furl the jib, this should be possible to do on a broad reach.

3) if you can reef the main without rounding up, do so.
or, prepare for reefing then turn upwind, and quickly reef.

Finally, slap yourself for not paying better attention to the weather. And promise yourself to do better in the future.

Todd

 

[HAL]

more on choice

Thanks for the advice on this so far, I will certainly put what I've learned into practice. I understand now that the question had many variables.

One thing I don't understand is why I shouldn't have heel and weather helm. The boat is a light displacement, high freeboard, centerboard, pocket cruiser, with swept back spreaders that prevent any point of sail below what I would call a broad reach, basically wind off the aft quarter. When the wind builds the natural tendency of the boat is to be pushed right over and spun around into the wind.
On Penobscot Bay Maine on a cloudy day on May 23 2008 around 2 pm the wind was tending WNW around 8-13 kts g16-18, within minutes it was gusting to 37 kts, no storm or front change. I was not out in this, but I have experienced similar situations. Reading wind on the water tells you its coming, but exact velocity takes a great deal of experience and conditions that are unusual can be a surprise.
One of the Vendee Globe racers that was dismasted has a video were he points to a graph from his weather instruments and notes a constant range he was dealing with and then a huge spike. He said something like “that's were it happened”

 

[Stu Jackson]

Reason for answers

The reason many of us thought that was that you did not tell us all that helpful information in your question. In the Site Talk section of this website is a small primer on how to ask a question. So, what most of us did was tell you what we'd do with OUR OWN boats. Really, how could we know you have very very swept back spreaders? In that case, you're right and the fact is that for those of us with regular spreaders we'd think your mainsail was sheeted in too tight for the conditions; in this situation, I believe you have a boat that cannot get its sails set properly for a true run. I personally think that's somewhat dangerous since it almost requires one to gybe on a downwind course. I only say this out of experience, because our marina is near the end of a very nice 45 minute DDW sail - if my spreaders were swept back, it'd NOT be fun to try to enjoy the end of the day because it'd almost be as much work as tacking out! On "regular spreader" boats the mainsail would be out against the spreaders, but the vang tight to keep sail off the aft lowers and the boat would NOT have the tendency you described because it'd be more like a run than a reach. At least that's how MY boat works. So, the information you provide in the question has in many cases a decided bearing on the answers.

 

[Ross]

HAL, One of the things I harp on here is the physics of the wind. A 15 mile per hour wind blows twices as hard as a 10 MPH wind. If you like the way your boat sails in 10 you should probably reef above 12. The rule is the square of the difference. 10 MPH is 1 and 12MPH is 1.2 and the difference squared is 1.44. or nearly 50 percent more force.

 

[bffatcat]

what to do?

with a light boat , swept back spreaders like yours I would reef the main. This should
stop the heel and quiet things down. If it dosent next step is to take down the main I reef frequently in breezes over 15 You do not have to round up completely. You should be able
to luff up the main enuf to put a reef in while your boat is still moving under jib alone. It usually takes me under 3 minutes to get the reef in and sheet the main in. I dont bother with point ties. I just let the dead area hang. Ive got an old Pearson 26w ior design masthead rig boats like this were designed to sail on jib alone. Though if you have a boat with a big main and small jib something diffferent might work better. Depends on size of sails stiffness of boat, beam, ballast ect:I really dont have enough info on the specs to give a more detailed opinion for your specific boat

 

[sailingdog]

The problem with a boat that has swept back spreaders, is that you'll have to turn head to wind to reef it successfully. You have to be very careful when turning upwind to avoid getting knocked down. Furling the jib will help quite a bit, but you'll have to be careful to avoid broaching or gybing—especially once the jib is furled, since you'll be under just an overpowered mainsail.

BTW, with a boat that has swept back spreaders, reefing the mainsail going downwind isn't really possible, even with in-mast or roller reefing IMHO. The wind will tend to pin the sail against the spreaders and the force of the wind in the sail will make it impossible to douse or reef on anything larger than a dinghy.

When heading fairly deep down wind, I'll generally drop or reef the main to help prevent problems with the boat getting overpowered in a gust or sudden storm. Heading downwind, on a broad reach, under the jib alone is generally pretty manageable, since the boat will have very little tendency to broach or gybe generally. A roller furling genny can usually be reefed or furled with little difficulty on most points of sail.

One serious problem a lot of sailors, especially multihull sailors, run into is being over-canvassed when having to go from a downwind situation to an upwind one.

For example: Sailing downwind in 20 knots of wind, I can generally have full sail up with little or no problem. I might be doing 12 knots or more, depending on the sail plan up, since I'm on a trimaran. The apparent wind is only going to be about 8 knots or so. However, if I do have the full main and genny up, and I have to turn upwind, I'm basically going to get screwed if I'm not careful. With the 150% genny and full main, I probably be able to go 12 knots upwind...but with an apparent wind of almost 30 knots... I'm seriously over-canvassed and have to reduce sail before I get into trouble.

Personally, I'd rather sail with a bit less sail than optimal, especially if I'm sailing short-handed, than risk getting caught with too much sail up.

 

[Roger Long]

However, if I do have the full main and genny up, and I have to turn upwind, I'm basically going to get screwed if I'm not careful.

The same effect is even quite evident in a slower monohull. When sailing with people who are interested in learning more about sailing, I have often fallen off to a run and said, "Look the wind went down.", brought her up hard on the wind and said, "Look, it came back again!", then I say, "Watch, I can make it go down.". When I fall of then, they usually get it and are quite impressed.

If you (retorical "you"; not sailingdog) haven't done this, I highly recommend it. It will make you think hard the next time you are sailing along downwind fat, dumb, and happy. It will also show you what a good tactic running off can be.

BTW, I'm quite impressed by the quality of this whole discussion and the knowledge evident on this forum. What a difference from the Usenet slum I used to hang out in

P.S. I would also off this thought to the OP: It's really hard to uncook a goose.

 

[sailingdog]

The same effect is even quite evident in a slower monohull. When sailing with people who are interested in learning more about sailing, I have often fallen off to a run and said, "Look the wind went down.", brought her up hard on the wind and said, "Look, it came back again!", then I say, "Watch, I can make it go down.". When I fall of then, they usually get it and are quite impressed.

Very true, but a monohull gets into less trouble for two reasons: first, the change in apparent wind magnitude going from downwind to upwind is usually smaller; second, the monohull can heel to bleed the excess wind pressure off the sails—which can have really bad results in a multihull.

If you (retorical "you"; not sailingdog) haven't done this, I highly recommend it. It will make you think hard the next time you are sailing along downwind fat, dumb, and happy. It will also show you what a good tactic running off can be.

Yes, it can seem like two very different days. The downwind leg may not even require foulies.... the upwind leg may require full foul weather gear, tethers and harnesses.

BTW, I'm quite impressed by the quality of this whole discussion and the knowledge evident on this forum. What a difference from the Usenet slum I used to hang out in

P.S. I would also off this thought to the OP: It's really hard to uncook a goose.

LOL... Yeah, once those gooses are cooked, they don't uncook at all.