Ok , I have VERY limited sailing skills . i have sailed on the Columbia River twice. I do run a smal fishing boat on the Columbia and i have alot of common sense , as i know when my boat needs to come off the water . no matter how good the Sturgeon are hitting ! ! We have ripass winds with 2-4 foot chop at times . And a 15 foot boat like mine dont like that much at all . I have also commercial fished in the Gulf of Alaska on a 54 ft Skookum . Now , I would like to sail on the Columbia and with some lessons in off shore , sail to the San Juans . What I would like to hear is some input as to what builder would suit my needs . I have a few ideas and my budget alows for a 34 - 30 footer . Properly outfitted , would a Catalina , Newport , Ericson or Islander make for a nice boat ride to the S J Islands ? Ranger 33 ? I am leaning towards the Newport due to cost= size . They seem to be more footage for less dollars and a established builder . Any feedback at all on which boat would take the voyage would be welcome . thank you for reading my post . See you in the S J I s ! ! !
need advice
- Thread starter fishheadmafia
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As always I recommend of book or two. There are 26 foot boats that are better able to keep you alive than some 34 foot boats. There are boats designed for racing and there are boats that are not so nimble boat also not so sensitive to the weather.
Consider, if you can find it , Cruising Sailboat Kenitics by Danny Greene N.A.
It can be a real eye opener about boat design.
Consider, if you can find it , Cruising Sailboat Kenitics by Danny Greene N.A.
It can be a real eye opener about boat design.
Seems like the most popular question but there is usually no right or wrong answer regarding which boat to choose. With your experience, you likely already know the limiting factor is typically the crew's ability rather than that of the boat.
Do your due diligence when shopping for the boat which appears to be the best maintained for the money you intend to spend, hire an experienced surveyor, upgrade it's deficiencies as your budget allows and let the weather be your friend as you can't fight it regardless of the brand label on the boat's transom.
Everybody has an opinion which boat is "best" but usually you'll never find anyone who has had them all to make an intelligent comparison.
Do your due diligence when shopping for the boat which appears to be the best maintained for the money you intend to spend, hire an experienced surveyor, upgrade it's deficiencies as your budget allows and let the weather be your friend as you can't fight it regardless of the brand label on the boat's transom.
Everybody has an opinion which boat is "best" but usually you'll never find anyone who has had them all to make an intelligent comparison.
I don't know the waters there at all but will comment anyway because its winter and I've got nothing better to do.
People who sail on Rivers say the wind is always on the nose. So, I would shop for a boat with very good upwind ability. Upwind sailing is fun; but, if you're going against a current and your boat doesn't point you're going to be frustrated. The Ranger 33, the Newport, the Cal and especially C&C,s should serve pretty well. Ditch the large overlapping headsails and use the 135 or 110 while you learn how to sail.
The other thing is draft. Deeper draft boats go upwind better but limit where you can sail. If, as I'm guessing, you'll be tacking upwind a lot you'll want to carry those tacks close to shore. Also, if you're planning to take the boat out an inlet with shoaling you'll be happier with less draft.
Being a former Ranger owner (I had the 29), I'm partial to them. I know from the Sailnet Ranger group that there are several in the Pacific Northwest and I'm pretty sure they've met in the SJ Islands.
Good luck and have fun!
People who sail on Rivers say the wind is always on the nose. So, I would shop for a boat with very good upwind ability. Upwind sailing is fun; but, if you're going against a current and your boat doesn't point you're going to be frustrated. The Ranger 33, the Newport, the Cal and especially C&C,s should serve pretty well. Ditch the large overlapping headsails and use the 135 or 110 while you learn how to sail.
The other thing is draft. Deeper draft boats go upwind better but limit where you can sail. If, as I'm guessing, you'll be tacking upwind a lot you'll want to carry those tacks close to shore. Also, if you're planning to take the boat out an inlet with shoaling you'll be happier with less draft.
Being a former Ranger owner (I had the 29), I'm partial to them. I know from the Sailnet Ranger group that there are several in the Pacific Northwest and I'm pretty sure they've met in the SJ Islands.
Good luck and have fun!
what to buy
There are many many threads on this in the archives. There are lots of sound good old boats out there. Take someone that knows something about sailboats with you when you go looking. Do some reading too.
There are many many threads on this in the archives. There are lots of sound good old boats out there. Take someone that knows something about sailboats with you when you go looking. Do some reading too.
shemandr has good advise, but I don't think the Newport is going to be a sprightly upwind performer. Also, the Newport is not a good lightwind boat - I don't really know about winds in the NW. The SJs, if I am correct, are reached w/going into open water, so any ofthe boats you mention should do you fine.
Books & the Internet
John Vigor: twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere (or something like that)
Internet: find the Association websites of the ones you've listed and ask about them
Given your neck of the woods and your plans, weather, as Don said, is gonna be a big influence on your trip up the coast.
The Columbia River Bar is daunting to say the least, so a lotta local knowledge will stand you in good stead.
George Benson has written a book and has a website about his harbor hopping trips up the coast from California to Seatlle. See: http://www.georgebenson.us/ Read the Cruise Narratives, scroll down, lower right hand corner
John Vigor: twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere (or something like that)
Internet: find the Association websites of the ones you've listed and ask about them
Given your neck of the woods and your plans, weather, as Don said, is gonna be a big influence on your trip up the coast.
The Columbia River Bar is daunting to say the least, so a lotta local knowledge will stand you in good stead.
George Benson has written a book and has a website about his harbor hopping trips up the coast from California to Seatlle. See: http://www.georgebenson.us/ Read the Cruise Narratives, scroll down, lower right hand corner
Use local knowledge of boats
Your posting suggests you're in the Portland, OR area. Although I sail on a lake in the southern end of the valley, my observation from trips to Portland is that there a number of public marinas and a few yacht clubs on the Columbia R. and the Willamette R. Sailors are a gregarious bunch, and in love with talking about their boats. Take the time to walk around the docks, look to see what people are sailing and talk with them. You'll learn a lot, you might even receive an invitation to sail, which is a great way to learn about a boat.
Good luck.
Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo
Your posting suggests you're in the Portland, OR area. Although I sail on a lake in the southern end of the valley, my observation from trips to Portland is that there a number of public marinas and a few yacht clubs on the Columbia R. and the Willamette R. Sailors are a gregarious bunch, and in love with talking about their boats. Take the time to walk around the docks, look to see what people are sailing and talk with them. You'll learn a lot, you might even receive an invitation to sail, which is a great way to learn about a boat.
Good luck.
Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo
I lived for a year and a half in eastern Oregon Up river from where they built the John Day Dam. The river under goes many changes between Spokane and Astoria. As I recall you can't get to the San Juans from the Columbia without venturing offshore. If there are no dams and locks between your sailing area and the ocean the boat you will need is not the same as the boat you will want if you are sailing the upper reaches of the river and may want the convenience of a shoal draft lift-able keel boat that can be beached easily.
Boat Design vs Condition vs Experience
Regardless of boat design, condition is paramount for any serious sailing. Equally as important is the experience of the skipper and crew. When the going gets rough, it is nice to have a boat that will take care of you vs. a boat that needs you to take care of her. (Traditional underbody, heavy displacement vs. Modern underbody, light displacement) Either may do well, but different tactics are needed.
Regardless of boat design, condition is paramount for any serious sailing. Equally as important is the experience of the skipper and crew. When the going gets rough, it is nice to have a boat that will take care of you vs. a boat that needs you to take care of her. (Traditional underbody, heavy displacement vs. Modern underbody, light displacement) Either may do well, but different tactics are needed.
Some Questions...
Based on a one week charter in the San Juans, the issues are tidal currents, kelp, and fog. Depth was not much of an issue. So any good old boat will do the job for you. Can you tell us:
Where will you dock the boat?
Will you be sailing alone? If not, tell us about your crew.
What is your budget? Many of us own good old boats, but you could spend anything from $20,000 to $200,000 for a 34 footer. And you may want to reserve some funds for sails or projects if you buy an older boat.
How much time will you be sailing? Are you thinking of long week-ends, weeks, or months aboard?
Best of luck - there are plenty of good solutions to your question. And I would not be too particular about the brand you buy.
David
Based on a one week charter in the San Juans, the issues are tidal currents, kelp, and fog. Depth was not much of an issue. So any good old boat will do the job for you. Can you tell us:
Where will you dock the boat?
Will you be sailing alone? If not, tell us about your crew.
What is your budget? Many of us own good old boats, but you could spend anything from $20,000 to $200,000 for a 34 footer. And you may want to reserve some funds for sails or projects if you buy an older boat.
How much time will you be sailing? Are you thinking of long week-ends, weeks, or months aboard?
Best of luck - there are plenty of good solutions to your question. And I would not be too particular about the brand you buy.
David
Bottom line .Get educated on safe boating .Online courses are a great start.Then go sailing with some locals .Most people love to have a helping hand .Take your time and see what others sail in your area .Then proceed with your boat purchase . I have a Islander 36 ,which happens to be a west coast boat .So look at the islander36owners.com site for just about anything you want to know about this boat .There is usually a boat or two for sale Take your time and look around . Welcome aboard
Without books you can't know that you don't know about a subject that is not common to those around you. A mentor can help you round out and better understand what you read but you may have looked at the moon each night that it was visible and not know anything about if if you haven't read a book on the subject.
Don't overlook Cascade, the local boat company. They have made 27', 29', 36' and 42' footers. As they sold finished boats as well as hulls and decks for DIYers you will find a wide range of prices and quality. The hulls and decks are stout and well made. Many from here regularly travel to the San Juan's and Hawaii
Although I have done the Columbia to San Juan's a number of times and as I get older I find the most comfortable way to sail the San Juan's is to leave Deja Vu here in Portland and rent a boat there. Logistics are much easier.
After 30 years of sailing the Columbia I still find places I've never been to.
Enjoy.
Jeff
http://home.teleport.com/~salmo/DejaVu/
Although I have done the Columbia to San Juan's a number of times and as I get older I find the most comfortable way to sail the San Juan's is to leave Deja Vu here in Portland and rent a boat there. Logistics are much easier.
After 30 years of sailing the Columbia I still find places I've never been to.
Enjoy.
Jeff
http://home.teleport.com/~salmo/DejaVu/
need advice (re-post)
As I do have quite a bit of boating knolage , and I have been on the open ocean in large(54 footer) boats for weeks at a time , and I am fully aware of what a large body of water (river , lake , or ocean) can do to a boat of any size , I guess my question would be(just looking for opinions) , which of the boats I was considering (Catalina , Newport , Islander , Ranger) , would be less prone to "oil canning" ? I know there are 20 footers out there that are stout as , and more sea worthy than some 40 footers , and that condition is of total importance on ANY boat . I also plan on taking some offshore training . I would be sailing primarily on the river , but the goal is to sail to the San Juans . Cascade is a awsome builder , but I have noticed most of them for sale have been home built .I would want to sail the Islands for about a month . I plan on spending about 25,000 for a boat in the best possible condition that i can find . Cals and Columbia are solid but are either hammered or out of my budget .
As I do have quite a bit of boating knolage , and I have been on the open ocean in large(54 footer) boats for weeks at a time , and I am fully aware of what a large body of water (river , lake , or ocean) can do to a boat of any size , I guess my question would be(just looking for opinions) , which of the boats I was considering (Catalina , Newport , Islander , Ranger) , would be less prone to "oil canning" ? I know there are 20 footers out there that are stout as , and more sea worthy than some 40 footers , and that condition is of total importance on ANY boat . I also plan on taking some offshore training . I would be sailing primarily on the river , but the goal is to sail to the San Juans . Cascade is a awsome builder , but I have noticed most of them for sale have been home built .I would want to sail the Islands for about a month . I plan on spending about 25,000 for a boat in the best possible condition that i can find . Cals and Columbia are solid but are either hammered or out of my budget .
I don't know when Islander stopped making boats but it has been quite a while. Catalina is still in business. Ericson, Ranger and Newport, I know nothing of them. Round bottom hulls are not likely to oil can. Boats in very good condition regardless of age are going to command the higher prices. If you could be more diffinitive about "hammered" it would help. A boat can be badly neglected but still in good condition.
If I were to take a brand new Cadillac and let the air out of one front tire, remove a head light and let it dangle over the bumper, throw several buckets of mud over it and take back seat out and lay it on the trunk it will look like a wreck and some people wouldn't pay fifty cents on the dollar for it. So please define "Hammered" for me.
If I were to take a brand new Cadillac and let the air out of one front tire, remove a head light and let it dangle over the bumper, throw several buckets of mud over it and take back seat out and lay it on the trunk it will look like a wreck and some people wouldn't pay fifty cents on the dollar for it. So please define "Hammered" for me.
Dangerous response, but I will risk it!
Not meaning to insult anyone or start a flame war, but not one of the brands that you have mentioned are particularly known to be substantially more heavily built or of higher quality than the others. All were "chevys" (Nothing wrong with a Chevy!)
If you are looking for a very strong hull, "generally" the fiberglass layups of the late 60's and early 70's were known to be thicker than in the late 70's and 80's. As an east coast sailor, Bristols, Pearsons, Cape Dorys of the late 60s and early 70s have better reputations for "solid" than most of the other boats that you mentioned.
Have you considered a Pearson Triton, Pearson 30, Bristol 26 or 29.9?
A good source of information are the reviews by Practical Sailor and Good Old boat magazine.
Not meaning to insult anyone or start a flame war, but not one of the brands that you have mentioned are particularly known to be substantially more heavily built or of higher quality than the others. All were "chevys" (Nothing wrong with a Chevy!)
If you are looking for a very strong hull, "generally" the fiberglass layups of the late 60's and early 70's were known to be thicker than in the late 70's and 80's. As an east coast sailor, Bristols, Pearsons, Cape Dorys of the late 60s and early 70s have better reputations for "solid" than most of the other boats that you mentioned.
Have you considered a Pearson Triton, Pearson 30, Bristol 26 or 29.9?
A good source of information are the reviews by Practical Sailor and Good Old boat magazine.
water damage engine not working useless sails and rigging interior shot missing glass stripped of working electronics wiring shot rotting woodwork just plain old hammered . not neglected , but abused , then neglected . then abused again . we have all seen them . I have seen late 60s columbias in very prime condition , and late 90s hunters that were unfit for the homeless to take shelter . hammered .
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