How do I make my winch lower my keel?

[markymarcmac]

I've been dreading this question, because it sounds like I'm an absolute m*ron.

This is my first boat - a 1985 Macgregor 25.

The keel is suspended a couple inches above the trailer, and I want to lower it so it sits nicely on the keel rest..

The problem is, I have only figured out how to crank the winch so the keel raises (which I don't want to do anymore).

If anyone can tell me how to reverse it so I can lower the keel onto the trailer, me and my frayed keel cable would be very grateful.

Below are a few pics should that help show you what I've got.

Thanks alot, in advance, for any suggestions and HELP!

 

[I Suppose]

I know this is going to sound silly but all you should have to do is turn the handle the other way. Something tells me you have already tried this . the cable may be caught up on some of the other wraps of cable. when that has happend to me i just uncrank a little more and it usualy frees itself. If the cable is frayed you may want to replace it so the burrs dont catch on the other wraps. I hope this helps

 

[markymarcmac]

So you're saying that, in order to lower the keel, all you need to do is simply turn the winch handle in a counterclockwise direction?

No levers to move? You can raise the keel by turning the winch one way, then lower it by simply turning the winch the other way? That's it?

Seems too good to be true - my winch is toast I guess. I tried with a little force to turn it counter clockwise, and it will not budge at all. When I try and raise the keel, the winch does allow me to lift it.

I hoped there was some "reverse" lever to engage before lowering the keel.

Sounds like I need a new winch.

Thanks for your reply.

I know this is going to sound silly but all you should have to do is turn the handle the other way. Something tells me you have already tried this . the cable may be caught up on some of the other wraps of cable. when that has happend to me i just uncrank a little more and it usualy frees itself. If the cable is frayed you may want to replace it so the burrs dont catch on the other wraps. I hope this helps

 

[novelman17130]

Just spray WD40 on all of the gears, and parts of the winch, wait a few minutes and then crank it up then down several times untill it moves easily. Silicone also works and stays on longer. Frank told me about this and saved me the cost and work of replacing the winch. Thanks Frank.
Duane "novelman"

 

[Gregg9020]

The other thing you can do is spray T-9 on all of the part EXCEPT THE clutch plate which should be located behind the smaller gear next to the teeth. It is the greyish pad that is there. DON'T spray that. That is what keeps the winch from spinning free when lowering it. I agree with I Suppose, and look at replacing the cable and or the entire winch... Harbor Freight has the exact winch that MacGreggor used. I think they are only about 30-40 bucks and the cable you can pick up at WM.

Good Luck!!

 

[caguy]

Gregg after looking at the Dutton exploded diagram the clutch is a myth. There is no clutch. So spray away.

Mark, you moron , don't be afrayed all you have to do is give it a good bump in reverse to release the ratchet. Just kidding there are no stupid questions, only stupid people asking them.

If the winch is working correctly you will hear the ratchet click when you crank it up. It will not click in reverse.

Pardon me I need to go take my meds.
Frank

 

[Timo42]

For safety's sake

Replace the winch and the cable, even if you can get it loose it is suspect and not worth the risk of injury or damage to the boat when it fails. I still have a sore spot on my wrist from when my winch handle got away from me. If you can get it loose by spraying it, fine, lower the keel to the trailer and remove the cable, cut the eye off and remove the winch. Otherwise support the cable with a jack. remember the keel weighs 600 lbs. nothing to mess with. Dutton/larsen makes the proper brake winch, available from Northern Tool, :dance: For the price it's not worth fighting with. http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200331205_200331205
The cable should be 7/32" dia 7x7 stainless cable, 12' long, you need an eye spliced in one end, use a thimble and 2 nicopress fittings, W/M has the cable and fittings, they will let you use the crimping tool as well, crimp each fitting 3 times, I added a crimp stopper fitting at the other end to keep the cable from unravelling. You may need to drill an extra hole in the winch to match the holes in the boat, also you will have to bend the handle out some to clear the bulkhead. Tim
Frank, it does have a brake, they call it a pressure plate:naughty:

 

[TexasEd]

There should be a little spring loaded lever on this winch that is keeping it from spinning backwards. I don't see it in the photos, but it is what is making the ratching noise when you raised the keel. It pushes into the ratchet wheel you can see on the winch. Find it and apply upward pressure to the handle. It will move to the down position and be sure to hold on to the handle because it will want to freewheel down.
Good luck.

 

[Timo42]

You don't want to mess with the ratchet or any of the other rusty bits in there, too much stored energy.

 

[Bob Gump]

Thought

I think I would block the keel and disconnect the cable...Then remove the winch...Two Bolts at the companionway.... Then you can work the winch and replace the Cable... I got the cable at Home Depot.....

 

[caguy]

Ok, ok Timo it does have a brake.

Replace the winch and the cable, even if you can get it loose it is suspect and not worth the risk of injury or damage to the boat when it fails. I still have a sore spot on my wrist from when my winch handle got away from me. If you can get it loose by spraying it, fine, lower the keel to the trailer and remove the cable, cut the eye off and remove the winch. Otherwise support the cable with a jack. remember the keel weighs 600 lbs. nothing to mess with. Dutton/larsen makes the proper brake winch, available from Northern Tool, :dance: For the price it's not worth fighting with. http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200331205_200331205
The cable should be 7/32" dia 7x7 stainless cable, 12' long, you need an eye spliced in one end, use a thimble and 2 nicopress fittings, W/M has the cable and fittings, they will let you use the crimping tool as well, crimp each fitting 3 times, I added a crimp stopper fitting at the other end to keep the cable from unravelling. You may need to drill an extra hole in the winch to match the holes in the boat, also you will have to bend the handle out some to clear the bulkhead. Tim
Frank, it does have a brake, they call it a pressure plate:naughty:

Backing off the handle releases the brake when the brake releases the drive shaft moves and tightens on the handle. This allow for a controlled reversal of the winch. I spray mine about every 2-3 months as needed. As Novelman pointed out I usually use silicon spray because it is handy and works well.
I've attached the exploded diagram from Dutton. H is the pressure plate and I the pressure washer.
Frank
BTW you can buy parts directly from Dutton-Lainson, at very reasonable prices .

http://www.dutton-lainson.com/proddetail.php?prod=14932

 

[TexasEd]

Here's a thought

Marky, Here is your solution. Since Timo is so rich, he will send you a check to replace the winch, the install too. See? Simple and easy.

 

[Timo42]

Marky, Here is your solution. Since Timo is so rich, he will send you a check to replace the winch, the install too. See? Simple and easy.

Nah, all you have to figure out is which is less, insurance copay and lost wages from a broken wrist, or a $50 winch Unlike some here, I know of what I speak from personal experience. Tim

 

[TexasED]

Do the smart thing

Timo must be a car mechanic. You know the type, replace, don't repair.
Try the lever or WD-40 the clutch if it has one. From your picture, unlike the schematic Timo sent, it has a paul and a ratchet lever. Look at the shape of the ratchet wheel. If it was me, I would do the cheap, easy thing first. Of course, you don't let the lever fly back and hit you. If nothing else works, then replace the winch. That will be a real job.

 

[Timo42]

Ed, I respectfully suggest that since you obviously have never seen one of these winches up close or tried what you are suggesting, don't make personal attacks on someone who has, and based on the visible condition, critical nature, and cost of replacement of the part in question, recommends a prudent course. I would also suggest that you do a little research into the economics and liabilities involved in the replace vs repair debate in the automotive field before insulting an honest mechanic. But if you want to try repairing your car yourself, go right ahead, it's a free country. Walk a mile in my shoes, etc.

 

[frogvalley]

Replace. Its cheap and easy. Spraying something on brake/clutch material is just dangerous.

 

[Gregg9020]

I have to go with Tim on this one, and I am NOT a mechanic, but I have seen the wich spin out of control, and it was luck that kept the guy from losing fingers and a wrist. The money is well spent and your family will thank you when one of them has to work the wich when you arenot able too. Texas Ed??? What can I say.....if you are into repairing part that holds, up, winches, up and down 625 pounds of steel, don't ask me to crew on your boat. I replaced my wich several years ago, and it was less than an hour ro complete the $60 project.

 

[Bob McL]

If you have a "pawl" on the winch, you have the wrong winch. It is a Trailer winch. You need the "brake winch" as previously noted. This is not an area to try to save a dollar and risk injury or your boat if the keel falls due to a run-away winch handle.

 

[caguy]

TexasEd you should really get to know someone before attacking them.

I don't as a practice "should" on people TexasEd, but Timo42 is probably one of the smartest mechanics I know.
In addition he never hesitates to jump in and lend a hand. I on the other hand I am one of the cheapest (at least according to my friends) . See I would do a cost analysis that would go like this. My copay is $10 and I have about 6 months of full pay sickness time saved up. I have also been beatened up by a free falling winch handle. You know you can't recall pain?, but the value of a dollar for me is ever present and continually haunts me.
Fortunately I have friends like Timo who recognize this short coming of mine and step in to help out. One time he witnessed me jury rigging my trailer winch by tying the handle in place with my dockline. The next time we went sailing he brought and gave me a winch. He refused to take any money for it, not that I could bring myself to offer any, but he would have refused anyway.
In addition to his subtle biting wit he is fun to sail with, (despite a need to sail in the horizontal), and I am proud to consider him a friend.
BTW I still maintain that the brake is fool proof and cannot cause the handle to free wheel. Failure of the ratchet will, but in most cases can be made functional with a little lubricant. If you don't want to spray just put a little grease on you finger and work it around that little ratchet thingy.

 

[TexasEd]

Back to you

I was thinking I was the one who got flamed when, right after I suggested to check the ratchet, Timo said,

"You don't want to mess with the ratchet or any of the other rusty bits in there, too much stored energy."

Marky, you are the only one who can make this decision. You will have to take the risk of going down below and checking it out one more time. I know, I know, after listening to the scardy cats above this post, you must be thinking that everything on a Mac is dangerous and expensive, but the truth is that Macs are pretty easy to work on. That is part of the fun. True, sometimes you need help and sometimes things cost some money, but lots of times you can do it yourself. If feels really good, not to mention saving some money.

BTW, your cable looks good. I don't think you need to replace it. Whether you work on the winch or replace it, be sure to secure the keel so the weight is off.

It is spelled pawl. Thanks for the help.

To everybody, maybe it would be a good idea to chill out, get off the computer and GO SAILING!