Large area hull deformation - Is this concerning?

[Loops]

Hello all I have just purchased a C22 with a swing keel on a trailer. As far as I'm aware it has been on a trailer for a very long time and I need some help identifying the cause and risk of this hull deformation.

It is an area roughly 600x600mm wide, most predominant on the starboard side with most of the area being forward of the seacock.

Looking and tapping on both the inside and outside of the hull it the sound is the same, very dry thud, no squishy or flex whatsoever when pressed, and it seems there is even a rib/oem reinforcement running from the centerline to the aforementioned area.

I don't personally feel it is a sail-ending thing as there is NO cracking anywhere on the hull and the entire structure feels rock solid.

I'm just hoping for some experienced/knowledgeable shipwrights or surveyors opinions to ease my mind as I can't put this on the water without a little more peace of mind.

Thank you all for your time

 

[kappykaplan]

I believe you have a case of "canning" from being on the trailer for such a long time. My understanding is that it usually corrects itself once back in the water.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[Gene Neill]

I wouldn't worry either. I would IMMEDIATELY get some proper form-fitting bunks on that trailer, though. Yikes.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

98% of the time the hull will return to normal if left in the water or on a trailer with proper bunks. There isn't much more to say that hasn't already been said. Go sailing and have some fun!

 

[KCofKC]

I agree with what has been said but I would tend to be of the opinion that the oil canning is caused by too much weigh on the keel. With the boat off of the trailer I would start with raising the bunks on both sides by about an inch and see if it self corrects. This in practice will lighten the keel loading as well as help with self centering the boat. I would also insure that each of the opposing bunks are also uniform in height as well. I think when you measure you will find the bunks not to be symmetrical in measurement. You can also note that the bottom of the keel has some notching which I believe supports my theory and they have developed a road rash affect to notch them that way. Does not appear serious right now and there is no need to let it become that way. Good luck with a solution, Ken

 

[Loops]

Thanks to everyone for the replies, I had a shipwright (friend of mine) look at it, and it seems the hull and "canning" is not an issue here as there are no cracks or concerning areas. Upon closer inspection I will be needing to replace two bulkheads and possibly rebuild the transom. It seems there is core missing from certain areas, would anyone know if this is a manufacturing detail or if it is something requiring immediate repair? Will be making a separate forum post after I grind back the paint in some areas so see the extent.

 

[Gene Neill]

The transom doesn't have a core as such. There's a lot of air in there. It's only solid where it has to be.

 

[Loops]

The transom doesn't have a core as such. There's a lot of air in there. It's only solid where it has to be.

Thank you this is really helpful actually. I can certainly see plywood core in some areas. But the fact that there are lots of gaps is not a concern??

 

[Project_Mayhem]

Thank you this is really helpful actually. I can certainly see plywood core in some areas. But the fact that there are lots of gaps is not a concern??

Can you post a picture?

 

[Loops]

Can you post a picture?

Yes- will certainly be taking photos this evening after work and posting them here

 

[KCofKC]

Canning is an indication of a potential pending issue, I still say, raise the bunks and take some weight off of the keel, that appears to be the root cause and most likely the canning will self correct once it is has proper weight distribution. Those areas are not extremely stiff in the first place. While there is currently no cracks I believe there will either become a set or a future issue.

The two bulkheads needing replaced may also be a contribution to the issue and not properly supporting their weight, when you remove them, you may also need to support the hull differently, pictures of them in place prior to removal would be helpful as well.

As for transom core missing core, I would encourage you to confirm there is a core or not, if it is a planned void and it makes you nervous you could always inject some two part marine flotation being careful not to over fill it. Again , photos after the sand and confirmation one way or the other would be best. But I also do not think you will find a full core.
You might search for the OEM line drawings and verify. Catalina has been through some changes but if you can't find one let me know and I will see if I can get a hold of Gerry Douglass I think I still have contact info on him as well but do hate to bother him in his retirement.
While I see a lot of 22's, I have never had to open up a transom in one, I do the bigger boats mostly.

Look forward to viewing the photo's.

 

[Gene Neill]

I still say, raise the bunks and take some weight off of the keel, that appears to be the root cause and most likely the canning will self correct once it is has proper weight distribution.

Did you look at his "bunks"? They are not bunks at all, they are just straight steel rails. I would be very careful advising him to put MORE weight on those things, out where the keel is thinner and weaker and the entire weight of the vessel would be point-loaded on perhaps a single-digit number of square inches. I think that could be disastrous.

Back to the transom: @Loops, here's a pic of mine, from when I upgraded my rudder gudgeons. Totally hollow. I've never sees a Boomaroo in person, but I'll bet it is built the same way. You have no gudgeon bolts visible in the cockpit, right? That tells the story.

 

[Loops]

Thanks for all the messages and help

I've taken a proper look at it all this afternoon and it seems that the core is mostly intact and there, the only section missing any core is slightly to starboard of the rudder gudgeon and port of the ladder.

There seems to be a little bit of rot where a previous owner connected throttle cables and battery cables for the outboard and keystart - I will be removing all of this, recoring and fixing all of the holes that were there. Seeing your rudder gudgeon bolts Neill I might try and do something similar for my aft deck drains!

See my last two photos of where the missing core actually is - doesnt seem to be rot as there is nothing until the dead straight core to port (where the shadow is)

 

[KCofKC]

Gene, I did in fact see the bunks and they would not be my first choice either but that boat does not weigh that much either. The bunks are power boat bunks with the teflon glides as well, so the modifier of the trailer did not understand sailboats would be my guess. But I still do not believe they were the cause of the problem. There is not a lot of width to the bunk, nor is there much curvature to match the hull. But having said that, the way it is loaded at this point it is heavily loaded on the keel and leaning to port and I would suspect that at some time it had water in it as well. There is no way this is a balanced position on the boat, with it leaning to port due to overloading on the keel, the keel is causing torsional load and oil canning the starboard bunk area. If the torsional load is removed I think the canning will resolve it's self and during that you can evaluated the permanent resolution. Which will most likely require a wider wood bunk covered with carpet and then the ends of the bunk loosened and raised to a more natural angle between them and provide a more natural balance and load. For sure it is not a good fit but you have to start some where. Sorry I did not give a more complete explanation, but if it is not damaged with the load that has been applied for who knows how long it won't be. Another example of the strength that was built into every Catalina for decades thanks to Frank Butler and Gerry Douglas!







.

 

[Gene Neill]

You explained perfectly, KC. I just disagree with you.

No disrespect. If I'm wrong, it won't be the first time.

 

[KCofKC]

Gene, I took no disrespect and intended none as well. I understand and at one time I would have had the exact same opinion and in reality it was a good observation and step and would have resolved much of the issues. Also your comments about the transom, were spot on, I own a different model. I have seen you post a lot of good information and advice and I would agree that the C22 is smaller than most of what I work on, so keep on, keepin' on. But after 42 years of working on, delivering, consulting for owners, marina's, insurance adjusters and even different manufactures is how I came to my conclusion. There are always many different ways to do a repair, I review them from the vantage point of keeping my liability insurance in good standing, never had to use it either. All my sins have been very small and inexpensive. At times I may be considered opinionated and that is OK, I have also been referred to as a picky perfectionist to which I only say, thank you to both. But the phone continues to ring almost every day years after my retirement and I still translate e-mails from many different languages. I won't say I have never been wrong, but just don't tell my wife! Stay safe and stay healthy, I am sure I will see your posts again, thanks for your comments, we're good! K PS, I forgot to ask, which part did you dissagree with? TA, K