Timing for the perfect tack
- Thread starter RussC
- Start date
I'm sure I don't know what you mean about making it personal. I'm sorry you took it that way.
It isn't the practice that you just described that is really what was confusing me. But, you said:
"That 90 deg target is monstrously incorrect and way too tiny. What I recommend you actually do is sail upwind and note your course. Then tack and sail back upwind on the new course, both courses as high as you can. Then compare the courses. 90 is nuts."
My initial response was to that. Subsequent comments led me to believe we were talking about two different things because I did not believe that you were likely to be so far off base.
I still don't understand what the quoted statement above means, but that's fine. I think Russ got good advice.
I'm getting great advise and appreciate it all! I'm really good at sifting through the fluff to glean the grain from any conversation. IOW I think all the advise is good but only a portion of it applies to my boat and my particular goals from it. I just got back from the lake a few minutes ago, intending to try out my new Garmin GPSMap but the winds were very uninspiring so I never launched however. It may have to wait until next season to discover exactly how close (or far) from the wind the Merit will sail.
BTW: on my boat I've found that some degree of backwinding the jib is very helpful to push the bow across and minimize momentum loss. part of that may be because less rudder is required? that may not apply to all boats, but the Merit likes it
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I know I asked a couple questions earlier but you've gotten lots of responses since I last logged in ..
The only thing I'd say is regarding your windex. You said you took the back arms off as you didn't see them having any use. That's kind of too bad. I've spent a fair bit of time getting my windex, with arms, adjusted to run well with my boat. What that means is using the arms and adjusting them so I have a clear indication of apparent wind and how high my boat will point. I have it so the inner back edge of the arrow "feather" is just touching the outer edge of the arm indicator. That is really my highest point of sail into the wind. As the two "feathers" cross, I'm notably slowing down. Inside the two arms - I'm not sailing.
My boat is hard to tack. I've found how I tack depends greatly on wind speed. Below a certain wind speed, my boat isn't going fast enough to tack with the Genoa out, so in preparation of the tack, I furl it in, then tack and pull it out on the other side. Above that wind speed, I can tack with the Genoa deployed. However, there is a range between low and high wind speed where I will fall off slightly to gather speed, then tack. So it's not always the same method for my boat, depending on wind speed.
dj
The only thing I'd say is regarding your windex. You said you took the back arms off as you didn't see them having any use. That's kind of too bad. I've spent a fair bit of time getting my windex, with arms, adjusted to run well with my boat. What that means is using the arms and adjusting them so I have a clear indication of apparent wind and how high my boat will point. I have it so the inner back edge of the arrow "feather" is just touching the outer edge of the arm indicator. That is really my highest point of sail into the wind. As the two "feathers" cross, I'm notably slowing down. Inside the two arms - I'm not sailing.
My boat is hard to tack. I've found how I tack depends greatly on wind speed. Below a certain wind speed, my boat isn't going fast enough to tack with the Genoa out, so in preparation of the tack, I furl it in, then tack and pull it out on the other side. Above that wind speed, I can tack with the Genoa deployed. However, there is a range between low and high wind speed where I will fall off slightly to gather speed, then tack. So it's not always the same method for my boat, depending on wind speed.
dj
Yes, this is what I meant by the best rate for each boat and situation. Also, that the amount of rudder is subtly less when starting at full speed, and my increase as the boat slows. Many factors, and a carved turn is one good analogy.
The point about minimizing flogging is good. Just don't back it so much that it is pressed hard against the rigging or that it slows the boat. Also, you want to get the jib across and sheeted in at the moment that it can first draw on the new tack. This reduces grinding to the bare minimum and it helps pull the bow through better than a backed jib since it begins the boat accelerating.
When I began sailing I also thought that was true. Everybody was saying you need to back the jib on beach cats. But they were wrong. With expereince I learned that there are better ways.90% of the times I've been caught in irons in light winds it's because I didn't let the foresail backwind enough. I agree that conditions do dictate methods for sure.
- Maximize speed, and then pinch up just a little, for a moment, before starting the tack. Basically a very short, slow start to the turn in.
- Increase the rate of turn as the boat slows. The rudder does not slow you as much after the boat starts to spin.
- Release the traveler and/or mainsheet a little at head to wind and not before--they are still pushing until then. In fact, some boats benefit from pulling the traveler above center as the tack starts--this helps the turn. If the main is out after the turn it is unlikely you will get caught in irons, because the main is not pushing the bow back up.
- Do NOT overly back the jib. That just stops the boat. Just enough to pop the sail through and no more if you can possibly help it. Make sure the main is loose and the boat will keep turning. Get the jib in when it can fill, but not before.
Most of the time when I get caught it is because I sheeted the main in tight too soon, before the boat was moving well and the jib pulling well. In the past I blamed other things.
As to the backwinding "controversy" perhaps some definition is needed. most notably in regards to the timing and speed of the release and the hauling in of the new active sheet. as an example lets say the winds are 8-10Kt with minimal chop and gusts etc. etc. etc.. I would normally start my tack by pre-setting what will become the new active sheet around the winch and in the cam cleat with no slack in the line. then releasing and holding the active sheet as I scan the horizon at ~90* for a landmark to shoot at. then a modest roll out of the rudder (I use a tiller tamer with some tension on it to allow me to briefly release the tiller throughout this process BTW). I'll watch the jib as it begins to backwind just enough to help push the bow across, which can happen pretty quickly on this (2000Lb 22') boat. by allowing it to backwind (pre-load) it also makes the jib easier to get across without hanging up on shrouds etc. I may not fully release the active sheet but rather feed it out as I grab out a little slack in the new active sheet at the same time, but that depends on the situation and how dedicated to a perfect tack I am that day. then from about dead into the wind on, I'll begin following the wind on the jib with the new sheet to hopefully have near zero slack in the new active sheet just as the jib begins to pull again........ in a perfect world.
how'd I do?
perhaps some definition is needed. most notably in regards to the timing and speed of the release and the hauling in of the new active sheet. as an example lets say the winds are 8-10Kt with minimal chop and gusts etc. etc. etc.. I would normally start my tack by pre-setting what will become the new active sheet around the winch and in the cam cleat with no slack in the line. then releasing and holding the active sheet as I scan the horizon at ~90* for a landmark to shoot at. then a modest roll out of the rudder (I use a tiller tamer with some tension on it to allow me to briefly release the tiller throughout this process BTW). I'll watch the jib as it begins to backwind just enough to help push the bow across, which can happen pretty quickly on this (2000Lb 22') boat. by allowing it to backwind (pre-load) it also makes the jib easier to get across without hanging up on shrouds etc. I may not fully release the active sheet but rather feed it out as I grab out a little slack in the new active sheet at the same time, but that depends on the situation and how dedicated to a perfect tack I am that day. then from about dead into the wind on, I'll begin following the wind on the jib with the new sheet to hopefully have near zero slack in the new active sheet just as the jib begins to pull again........ in a perfect world.how'd I do?
I like it! It's what I do most of the time single-handing my slightly larger boat.how'd I do?
Two observations - I wouldn’t bother putting the new sheet in the cam before the tack. One or two turns on the winch should be enough to keep the sheet from running away before you grab it, and if you try to keep it in the cam that will just slow you down when you want to pull the new sheet in. Second - I think you’re micromanaging he jib, for lack of a better word, trying to play out the old sheet and pull in the new one too simultaneously. You might find that if you just dump the old one and pull the new one to close hauled quickly you’ll have the jib set up faster and you’ll be able to get back to the tiller to make final adjustments to your course. I’d experiment with that anyway.
Ohhhh trust me.... Every day I've sailed over the past 12 years has been an experiment.
Two small things.
Just one turn on the new working winch. You will be hauling hand-over-hand, and two turns is asking for an override. Do be prepared to throw another turn or two the moment the pulling gets hard. This should take less than a second with practice.
You need to get away from using landmarks on shore. Go by the wind and waves. These are accessible no matter which way you are facing. Landmarks don't exist on the ocean. More importantly, you should always be oriented according to the direction of the waves and the wind. These are accessible no matter which way you are facing. Moreover, like which way is up, this should be the natural way you orient yourself when sailing.
Is the landmark actually at the correct angle to the wind? Is that the direction you should be staring, or should you be watching the sails and so forth? In fact, as a singlehander, staring at the compass is sort of distracting mid-tack IMO.
Just one turn on the new working winch. You will be hauling hand-over-hand, and two turns is asking for an override. Do be prepared to throw another turn or two the moment the pulling gets hard. This should take less than a second with practice.
You need to get away from using landmarks on shore. Go by the wind and waves. These are accessible no matter which way you are facing. Landmarks don't exist on the ocean. More importantly, you should always be oriented according to the direction of the waves and the wind. These are accessible no matter which way you are facing. Moreover, like which way is up, this should be the natural way you orient yourself when sailing.
Is the landmark actually at the correct angle to the wind? Is that the direction you should be staring, or should you be watching the sails and so forth? In fact, as a singlehander, staring at the compass is sort of distracting mid-tack IMO.
