Changing attitudes

[dLj]

I just got this article from Loose Cannon by Peter Swanson. It really hit home for me. I've been feeling this for a number of years now and being an old school sailor, I'm really glad someone else wrote this up this well. Take a read, see what you think.

dj

Mean Spirited: The New Boat Show Vibe

The 2025 Season Begins: Have-Yachts Versus Have-Nots

open.substack.com

 

[Hayden Watson]

I haven't been to a boat show in the last decade but if this is true for all areas, it is a sad state indeed.

 

[Tally Ho]

I used to look forward to the Chicago Sailboat show at Navy pier in the winter. Gave me something to look forward to in the bleak off-season.

Then it became the Chicago Boat show, and they mixed power boats and sail boats…and moved it to McCormick Place.

Now, I think they have added RV’s and campers, and each time there was a change, sailboats had a smaller and smaller place at the show. I stopped attending years ago.

Instead I would spend a day at Crowleys Yacht Yard for their “Yachta-palooza” in April. They put on classes in diesel engines, fiberglass repair, navigation, and other helpful topics. They have food trucks, fire pits and cold beers in the parking lot. Crowleys sells used boats, and they are all on display. And they have a huge charity resale shop that you can browse through tons of used junk…maybe finding just the part you need. And they have a huge sale on VC17, the preferred bottom paint in these parts.

The place isn’t fancy, the weather is usually crappy, but it is authentic and down to earth. Lots of “old salts” there in their foul weather jackets, talking to members of the Great Lakes Single-hand Society.

No big ass, commercial boat shows for me. Give me a “Yachta-Palooza“ style day anytime.

Greg

 

[dLj]

It seems to be permeating the whole industry. I began working on boats back in the '60's. In the '80's and '90's i worked in the marine world professionally. There was a consistent camaraderie all through those years. Sailors, well boaters in general, would help each other as described in that article. I don't know when the change happened. I guess it was creeping in slowly over a number of years.

But by about 2010 it was noticeably apparent. There are still places where that earlier camaraderie exists, frankly I've been lucky. I'm still able to find folks that still prescribe to that philosophy. Sure, I can't always, but for the most part I've avoided the change.

SBO is one of those corners. Sure we can get our knickers in a twist from time to time (I'm certainly guilty of that) but we are largely a group of old school sailors helping each other out, albeit from a distance. The exchange of opinions is really healthy. One of the things I love about sailing is the never ending learning. One is learning new things all the time, if one keeps an open mind. It makes us better sailors.

dj

 

[dLj]

I used to look forward to the Chicago Sailboat show at Navy pier in the winter. Gave me something to look forward to in the bleak off-season.

Then it became the Chicago Boat show, and they mixed power boats and sail boats…and moved it to McCormick Place.

Now, I think they have added RV’s and campers, and each time there was a change, sailboats had a smaller and smaller place at the show. I stopped attending years ago.

Instead I would spend a day at Crowleys Yacht Yard for their “Yachta-palooza” in April. They put on classes in diesel engines, fiberglass repair, navigation, and other helpful topics. They have food trucks, fire pits and cold beers in the parking lot. Crowleys sells used boats, and they are all on display. And they have a huge charity resale shop that you can browse through tons of used junk…maybe finding just the part you need. And they have a huge sale on VC17, the preferred bottom paint in these parts.

The place isn’t fancy, the weather is usually crappy, but it is authentic and down to earth. Lots of “old salts” there in their foul weather jackets, talking to members of the Great Lakes Single-hand Society.

No big ass, commercial boat shows for me. Give me a “Yachta-Palooza“ style day anytime.

Greg

Finding second hand shops is getting harder and harder. I don't know of a "Yachta-Palooza" near me on the Chesapeake - anyone know if such a thing exists here?

dj

 

[colemj]

I thought it was dribble. Maybe relative only to the state of the boat shows themselves (who cares?), but his attempt to color recreational boating as a whole is stretched beyond limit. And beyond what I think many here experience when boating.

Superyachts at boat shows NEVER allowed just anyone into them. Even the high-end boats smaller than superyachts never did that. Back in the early 90's, you needed a reservation to get on a Hinckely Souwester, and it wasn't guaranteed you would get one if you showed up in flip flops and T shirt. If you did score a reservation, you were accompanied by a representative, and not allowed to touch or sit on anything. Look and get off.

But none of this translates into the boating I experience every day. We have friends on a 1970's 30' sailboat, as well as friends on a 65' Nordhavn. We all hang together when in the same places, and the boats never come up in terms that this article implies. And that is just one specific example of what is reality when boating within the larger universe of boats.

Heck, in the San Blas Islands, Jimmy Buffet came in on his superyacht, got on a kayak and paddled around talking to all of us unwashed small boaters.

The author has a history of creating conflict and situations. His business is eyeballs and chatter, and he needs content for that.

Mark

 

[dLj]

I thought it was dribble. Maybe relative only to the state of the boat shows themselves (who cares?), but his attempt to color recreational boating as a whole is stretched beyond limit. And beyond what I think many here experience when boating.

Superyachts at boat shows NEVER allowed just anyone into them. Even the high-end boats smaller than superyachts never did that. Back in the early 90's, you needed a reservation to get on a Hinckely Souwester, and it wasn't guaranteed you would get one if you showed up in flip flops and T shirt. If you did score a reservation, you were accompanied by a representative, and not allowed to touch or sit on anything. Look and get off.

But none of this translates into the boating I experience every day. We have friends on a 1970's 30' sailboat, as well as friends on a 65' Nordhavn. We all hang together when in the same places, and the boats never come up in terms that this article implies. And that is just one specific example of what is reality when boating within the larger universe of boats.

Heck, in the San Blas Islands, Jimmy Buffet came in on his superyacht, got on a kayak and paddled around talking to all of us unwashed small boaters.

The author has a history of creating conflict and situations. His business is eyeballs and chatter, and he needs content for that.

Mark

Interesting comment @colemj .

It really hit home to me due to a lot of personal exposure to aspects I've had to deal with. As I never tried to get into super yachts - the motor boat kind - I can't comment on those. But the high end sailboats I would often go into as I am always interested in seeing how they are build, designed and what new aspects they bring into sailing. Those have become harder to get into at boat shows, although I do know how to bypass the bias. I've attended the Annapolis sail boat show almost every year for about 35 years. I won't go this year as I'll be traveling. And I've missed a few years here and there in that time period. But I've been pretty consistent over those years. There does seem to be some truth in what was written.

I spent many months looking for a marina closer to me on Long Island Sound a number of years ago. It was impossible to find a - what I consider - reasonably priced marina. Someone suggested a marina that had previously been sailboat friendly so I went there and they no longer even allow sailboats in their marina. Talking with the owner he told me sailboats don't spend enough money. He wanted power boats only as they would spend much more money in his marina. Especially buying fuel. Now you have Safe Harbors buying up marinas in many places and jacking the prices up considerably. Just look at the many threads that crop up regarding that.

For sure, when I'm out cruising, it's much less pronounced - I've anchored in many anchorages where folks are still very friendly. But even there you will now find a number of boats where the owners are not friendly.

I was sailing down in the Caribbean with two young women as crew, they decided to take my dinghy and row around the anchorage to ask folks anchored there what their story was. They were interested in pretty much just talking with folks about their boat, why they liked sailing, that sort of thing. About half the boats they went up to did not want to have any conversation with them at all. The other half were very friendly and invited them onboard and chatted with them for a fair bit of time. Now I don't have a comparative data point from earlier, but it sure feels like the balance would have been very different say 20 years ago and that there would have been almost no one that would have said no to that request.

dj

 

[shemandr]

I think the change at boat shows is real.
Even our humble Stuart (In water) Boat Show has changed. Appointments are necessary to board moderate to high end center consoles much less mega-yachts (Which we don't get). Presumably to get the appointment you need to financially qualify - just like real estate. I completely understand why the representatives don't want to waste their time with window shoppers. Yet they stand around looking bored to death and mostly hang with each other and not interacting with the public very much. I didn't bother to go last year. I don't know how many sales these shows generate. It's hard to imagine that's it's worth the expense to them.
In the past, the boats drew attention and sales folk would try to interact with the public, not because it would generate a sale, but because they would hand out a sheet with used listings. They could try to sell financing, insurance, upgrades (Example: A friend put a rollup cockpit shade on his Sabra after seeing one at that show). That was salesmanship. A personal contact, welcoming attitude, and an attempt to create revenue. The stiff arm is not an improvement IMHO.

 

[garymalmgren]

I'm with Mark.
Was he talking about boat shows, sailors, boats, modern tech (foils) or the lack of "fun" in the world today?

As for "Where boat shows used to literally exude convivial camaraderie for all comers, they are now so large and segmented, and so expensive for builders and other vendors to exhibit at, it’s hard to find anyone just plain having fun—on either side of the sales desk."

Boat shows were and are for selling stuff.

 

[kappykaplan]

Now you have Safe Harbors buying up marinas in many places and jacking the prices up considerably.

They bought Zahniser's a few years ago. Many of the old timers on staff that I'd worked with since then end of 2008 moved on.

 

[thinwater]

What strikes me is the increase in size. I've been to the Annapolis show many dozens of times (press), and while there used to be many boats in the 35- to 40-foot window, now you have to really hunt for them. 45 to 50 is the new 35 feet, and it goes way up from there. The last show had many HUGE catamarans, some with more bunks and bathrooms than my not-small house, but only one under 40 feet (a 36-foot dragonfly, which is NOT a cheap boat). Frankly, there are very few that even interest me anymore.

The other thing is the clear emphasis on appearance at boat shows and docks, rather than function underway. Spiral staircases have become common--they're not safe in houses that (other than the Wizard of Oz) are sitting perfectly still. The strip the running rigging, remove real anchors, and herd everyone below, where basically they are look like business hotels. Dock queens and charter boats.

It is what they can make money selling. Heck, they wouldn't make money selling to me, and they know it.

I guess I'll go again this year. Something to do. I usually see a few neat tricks, along with a lot of boring stuff.

 

[colemj]

If this is only about boat shows, then who cares? Even then, this has been the complaint about boat shows since I started attending them back in 1990. Each year were loads of complaints about how they have "changed" for the worse. Or how the "big boats" have taken over. Or any number of similar complaints. Every year.

And while we consumers might view boat shows as a theme park for a fun day's outing, @garymalmgren is correct that the only purpose of them is to sell stuff. If one loses sight of that, it is on them, not the show or those selling.

A mid-sized production sailboat today approaches $1mil and contains all sorts of expensive equipment. It is probably unreasonable to expect these to allow continuous lines of people crawling around through them for 10hrs each day for 5 days (or whatever the show times are). Particularly if that interferes with the people who are seriously looking to buy and make appointments ahead of time to see the boats in more detail.

We've been part-time cruising since 1985, and full-time cruising since 2008. From the Great Lakes to New England, throughout the entire Caribbean, Central and South America, and literally every reachable place in between except Haiti and mainland Venezuela. At no time were there ever anchorages or gatherings that didn't include boats/people that did not want to interact.

Everyone has a story, and one doesn't know theirs, but I know there have been times I didn't want to interact with others or go to a gathering for various reasons.

At all times there were many who did interact. We haven't found it any different now or then, or different from land life.

As to marinas and other boating-related things getting more exclusive and expensive, this has nothing to do with the reasons implied in that article. It is just economics. It sucks, and we also suffer from this, but it is how capitalism works. I'm not sure how that can be solved other than through normal supply and demand. In the 80's and 90's, there was a dearth of demand for slips, or at least a surplus of supply, but that has changed. It will change again.

It has nothing to do with what that article implies.

Mark

 

[Foswick]

I don't know anything about boat shows. I've never been to one.

But, there has been a palpable shift in the broader culture and it has affected the boating community, specifically. Whether you agree with the way the article presents the issue, or not, it is pretty undeniable. Interpersonal skills are on the decline. Customer service is certainly not what it used to be. Camaraderie is based on a sense of what unites us and people have been increasingly focusing a lot on what divides us.

This isn't just me lamenting "the good old days". (Well, maybe it is, somewhat.) This is a general perception that I think most people can agree with. If it isn't your experience then you are either lucky, not paying attention, or under about 40 and don't really rememember a time when things were different.

In general, I try not to get too sentimental about nostalgia. There's no point in it. It just holds people to stand in comparison to people who lived in different circumstances. So, if this was a generational thing, I would leave it at that - that younger generations just have different expectations about how to interact with others (which they do). But, I have seen the shift across all age groups.

The most measurable way I have observed this shift is a general decline in basic courtesy - from acknowledging people you pass on the dock to the (formerly) obligatory courtesy wave when you passed another boat on the water. These have always been part of the culture until very recently. About 10 years ago, nearly everyone who passed each other on the dock gave some sort of greeting. And, if two sailors passed each other on the water, it was practically law that they wave. (Powerboaters ... not so much ... but they're often inside their box, so maybe they are waving - hard to tell.)

These courtesies are more than cultural affectations. They communicate something that is important - a bit of "we're in this together" - a signal that there are no complete strangers on the water.

I've seen these simple traditions on the decline over the past 5-10 years, but they've taken a sudden shift in the past year or two - from most people still observe them to most people don't.

Not to say that the culture is gone - it certainly isn't - just that it's gone from the norm, no matter where you go, to the exception - at least on the U.S. coasts. If you go north of Vancouver, south of San Diego, or just off-shore a bit, the sense is still alive and well. I have much less experience on the east coast and Atlantic, but I would expect something roughly similar.

As the great prophet Jimmy Buffett proclaims:

It's these changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes
Nothing remains quite the same
With all of our running and all of our cunning
If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane

 

[dlochner]

A few observations.

First and foremost the recreational boating industry is highly segmented. Trying to make broad generalizations about the industry as a whole without recognizing this will lead to false assumptions. The folks going to the Palm Beach, Miami, and Ft Lauderdale shows are not in my social circle. The reason they own boats is probably much different from the reason the rest of us own boats.

Follow the money. The shows, the marinas, equipment suppliers, and the boat builders are trying to make money, especially many are now owned by private equity firms. Which would you rather have, the margins on a $100,000 boat or the margin on a $1M boat.

F. Scott Fitzgerald said it quite succinctly, "The rich are different from us." They are quite different people than those of us sailing on decades old production sailboats. Our interests don't cross.

Many of the boats on display at the large boat shows are already sold. The owner's agree to showing the boat as part of the purchase price. A friend is a broker who deals with these million dollar boats, I've sat with her during boat shows watched her deal with the people boarding the boats. She is very protective of the boat, as she needs to be and is quick to size up the crowd, she knows who is in the market and who is not.

The cruising crowd is really 2 crowds, a group of people who enjoy the lifestyle and a group who are there to check off a box on the Bucket List. Personally, I prefer the lifestyle group.

The only show I go to is the Annapolis Sailboat show (I'll be there this year). While there I may or may not go aboard any of the boats. I do enjoy the people watching, checking in with some vendors, and mostly enjoy the people watching and the energy of a large group of people with a common interest in the same place at the same time. Eastport and Annapolis are great towns, very walkable and scenic.

 

[Foswick]

The cruising crowd is really 2 crowds, a group of people who enjoy the lifestyle and a group who are there to check off a box on the Bucket List. Personally, I prefer the lifestyle group.

I call them "boaters" and "people who boat". The former is all about boats and everything boat/water-related ... for its own sake. The latter sees a boat as something to own as a means to an end ... like simply to race, to spend a week on each summer, or to impress friends. It's an oversimplification, but I think that there is a real distinction. It's like Rat vs Mr. Toad.

 

[Davidasailor26]

mostly enjoy the people watching and the energy of a large group of people with a common interest in the same place at the same time. Eastport and Annapolis are great towns, very walkable and scenic.

I agree - I don’t go to the Annapolis show to buy a boat, and I could get a lot of the same info about specific products online, but that’s not the same experience. For me the fun of going to the show is to look at the new designs with family or friends and say “oh, that’s a nice feature”, or “hmmm, what was that manufacturer thinking”, together. I haven’t been to the south Florida shows the author talks about, but nothing about the Annapolis show really keeps me from enjoying that part of the experience. Annapolis itself almost exudes that kind of experience even when the show isn’t going on - almost any day you can see some kind of boats racing in the harbor and plenty of fancy new boats around, and being there during the show amplifies that atmosphere many times over.

 

[Daveinet]

There is a bigger issue at play here. The medium trailer sailor is no longer affordable, and there are enough old boats to satisfy the demand. You can buy an old boat, replace the sails and a few lines and have a boat that functions as well as any new boat. As such, the manufacturers must respond to the lack of demand. They only build a few larger boats, and since the demand is low, the supply is low. You don't have huge choices, so there is little motivation to go to the show. There are not enough vendors to fill the space, so they have opened it up to a much broader audience to cover the cost. I caused the problem, because I've not been to a show in years, and will never drop a 100 grand for a new boat. Several years of a bad economy has not done anyone any favors either.

 

[dlochner]

The Annapolis Boat Show program dropped this morning. The boats on display list includes a fair number of boats in the under 40' range.

2025 Annapolis Sailboat Show Guide

Annapolis Sailboat Show, October 9-12, 2025. For tickets and more information, visit annapolissailboatshow.com

issuu.com

 

[CrispyCringle]

I think the problem is, at least in part, that everything at the large shows is setup to extract as much cash from the visitors as possible. Also, too crowded. We went to the Annapolis show a few years ago. Would be nice if there were about half the people there. I dont plan on going to any of the big shows anymore. Too expensive, crowded, long lines, etc.

 

[Bob S]

We, the wife and I, attended the Newport Boat Show this year on a whim. I’m semi-retired working Tuesday – Thursday giving me a 4 day weekend to sail. We let the wind dictate what direction we go. For whatever the reason we have had a shift away from the predominate SW winds to NE and East. Perfect for sailing to Newport and to explore Narragansett Bay. We anchored off Ida Lewis and spent 2 nights. It just so happened to be the weekend of the show. I had more fun watching the one-foot-itis in my wife’s eyes. All in all it was a fun sunny day, the restaurants were great but I’m definitely not a fan of the large crowds. It is about selling, it was a constant flow of people exploring each boat none of which I could afford. I would have loved to see their battery compartments and tankage with tons of questions but it was impossible for the one to two sales people to answer everyone’s curiousity. We had more fun on a 17 mile bike ride along Ocean Ave to Bellevue Ave by the mansions.
I'll happily stick with my 22 yo boat