Furler line selection

[jssailem]

There's simply too much bulk on the spool

Yes, this can be a problem. The issue then has one of two potential solutions.

• Keep the size line that worked before, but fails now, and strip out a length of the core.
• Or get a smaller diameter line.

Thinking about this, there is possibly a third. There are too many wraps on the drum. When I change foresails from the 135 Genoa to the 95 Jib, I find that the number of wraps needs to be adjusted. I have more line in the cockpit with the jib than when the Genoa is used.

 

[thinwater]

I went for what turned out to be a wonderful sail yesterday. Calm conditions but I still managed to hit 4-4.5kts consistently. It was hard to see much at the top of the mast but it looked like it could have been wrapped around.

I managed to get the sail properly hoisted. I believe the material of the laminate sail was causing a lot of binding in the luff track. I want to say that I felt some improvement when I rolled the sail up for the day but we will see. The issue was inconsistent.

I pulled one of the stanchion sheaves as it had a flat spot from the line. Hopefully I can get PETG-CF to print correctly.

@jssailem Thank you John. This has some good info in it!

Binoculars can help get a very good view of the masthead. Often overlooked. Lying down on deck for stability helps.

Lashed low friction rings make very durable furler line guides. Also, try to locate them so there is very little angle on any one guide. Angle = friction. Obviously, alignment entering the drum is crucial to avoiding jams.

 

[jssailem]

Obviously, alignment entering the drum is crucial to avoiding jams.

This is important.
Additionally, I believe the last guide must be at an adequate distance from the drum so that the line can move vertically as it wraps around on top of the line on the drum.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

There's a VERY slight angle that's almost unnoticeable but it it bunching up at the top so I will adjust it. On my last boat, moving the last block closer to the drum helped. I know, everyone says moving it further away is the move. Moving it closer allowed me to more easily target the middle of the spool

Binoculars can help get a very good view of the masthead. Often overlooked. Lying down on deck for stability helps.

Lashed low friction rings make very durable furler line guides. Also, try to locate them so there is very little angle on any one guide. Angle = friction. Obviously, alignment entering the drum is crucial to avoiding jams.

Binoculars are in the works but good call on laying on the deck! Stability was the first thing that came to mind.

I was thinking about low friction rings but I'll see if I can make what I have work first. Right now I have some 30 year old Garhauher stanchion "blocks" with no bearings. Just a sheave that rotates (sometimes) around a pin. I plan on 3D printing some new ones tonight and smoothing the surface once complete. I definitely plan on lubricating them. I have Green Grease, a liquid and paste Super Lube, Starbrite PTFE paste, WD40 dry lube, Boeshield T9 and SailKote. Which would be your preference?

 

[BigEasy]

SailKote!

 

[dLj]

I was thinking about low friction rings but I'll see if I can make what I have work first. Right now I have some 30 year old Garhauher stanchion "blocks" with no bearings. Just a sheave that rotates (sometimes) around a pin. I plan on 3D printing some new ones tonight and smoothing the surface once complete.

If you have a 3D printer, why not just build with a race for torlon bearings and upgrade your pulley system?

dj

 

[kappykaplan]

SailKote!

 

[Project_Mayhem]

If you have a 3D printer, why not just build with a race for torlon bearings and upgrade your pulley system?

dj

It take a fair amount of time to get everything sized correctly, tested, retested, etc. I have about eight boat project going on at the moment

 

[dLj]

It take a fair amount of time to get everything sized correctly, tested, retested, etc. I have about eight boat project going on at the moment

What are your sailing plans?

I understand having to make choices based on time and priorities. As you are aware, once you get the model built - you can make replacements very easily.

dj

 

[Project_Mayhem]

What are your sailing plans?

I understand having to make choices based on time and priorities. As you are aware, once you get the model built - you can make replacements very easily.

dj

You're question can have multiple meanings so I'll try to answer them all in one response. It's a day sailor with a laminate main and laminate 150% genoa

 

[dLj]

You're question can have multiple meanings so I'll try to answer them all in one response. It's a day sailor with a laminate main and laminate 150% genoa

Hahaha - let me see, you sailing plans are day sailing, and your sail plan is laminate main and laminate 150% genoa on a Catalina 30. Do I have all that correct?

Nice boat. Lake Michigan is a nice sailing grounds. I spent a few years sailing there.

Of course you have to allocate your time and money resources as you see best. I'd say that boat with that foresail is right on the cusp of a size where you would be better served with roller furling with the furling line running through bearing pulleys. I've had both with and without bearings and I've always had to fuss with the non-bearing system. You have to build a model for the current pulleys, do your finishing, and rebuild the supports with the new parts. Is it really that much more time and work to design in bearings and rebuild like that? Hey, I don't know the design of your system so I can't really give an honest assessment - Up to you - just figured I send a little out of the box thinking your way....

dj

 

[thinwater]

There's a VERY slight angle that's almost unnoticeable but it it bunching up at the top so I will adjust it. On my last boat, moving the last block closer to the drum helped. I know, everyone says moving it further away is the move. Moving it closer allowed me to more easily target the middle of the spool


Binoculars are in the works but good call on laying on the deck! Stability was the first thing that came to mind.

I was thinking about low friction rings but I'll see if I can make what I have work first. Right now I have some 30 year old Garhauher stanchion "blocks" with no bearings. Just a sheave that rotates (sometimes) around a pin. I plan on 3D printing some new ones tonight and smoothing the surface once complete. I definitely plan on lubricating them. I have Green Grease, a liquid and paste Super Lube, Starbrite PTFE paste, WD40 dry lube, Boeshield T9 and SailKote. Which would be your preference?

With that size boat I wouldn't bother with sheaves. The angles should be very small and the load should be low. New rope will slide easily. Keep it simple. No sheaves on my cruising cat and it was easy enough to furl by hand. If it was really windy I might take a single turn on a winch so that a gust wouldn't make me lose what I had, but never a handle in the winch. A clutch with the handle partially closed works too. Ratchet blocks and cam cleats can work.

BTW, do NOT furl up wind in any but the lightest winds. Bear off to a beam reach at least, and nearly down wind to blanket the sail when it blows hard. Do not let the furling line "fly" when deploying but always maintain some friction. When furling, keep just enough tension on the sheet to prevent flogging (if that is too hard, turn farther down wind!).

 

[kappykaplan]

BTW, do NOT furl up wind in any but the lightest winds. Bear off to a beam reach at least, and nearly down wind to blanket the sail when it blows hard. Do not let the furling line "fly" when deploying but always maintain some friction. When furling, keep just enough tension on the sheet to prevent flogging (if that is too hard, turn farther down wind!).

^^This - I learned all the hard way. Excellent advice! Tks, thinwater

 

[dLj]

With that size boat I wouldn't bother with sheaves. The angles should be very small and the load should be low. New rope will slide easily. Keep it simple. No sheaves on my cruising cat and it was easy enough to furl by hand. If it was really windy I might take a single turn on a winch so that a gust wouldn't make me lose what I had, but never a handle in the winch. A clutch with the handle partially closed works too. Ratchet blocks and cam cleats can work.

BTW, do NOT furl up wind in any but the lightest winds. Bear off to a beam reach at least, and nearly down wind to blanket the sail when it blows hard. Do not let the furling line "fly" when deploying but always maintain some friction. When furling, keep just enough tension on the sheet to prevent flogging (if that is too hard, turn farther down wind!).

Interesting. Must be near shore or inland lakes where you are doing this.

Off shore I use a different technique. Typically one doesn't change course so much, if at all. In heavy weather with a lot of sea state, this can be a dangerous move. One must be able to reef with wave direction being taken into account. It is not unusual to not be able to make those kinds of course changes.

For sure you don't let the furling line fly, nor the working and lazy sheets. Especially in heavy weather you must control all those lines.

dj

 

[colemj]

In heavy weather with a lot of sea state, this can be a dangerous move. One must be able to reef with wave direction being taken into account.

This. We are often in conditions where turning downwind was not an option, and turning to a beam wind/sea would be downright dangerous. Analogous to saying one must turn upwind to reef the main when running.

If using a dyneema line for the furler, why would one remove the core instead of the cover. That doesn't make sense at all.

It sounds like a furler issue, and not a line issue. If you have halyard wrap, you need to solve that ASAP, or furling will quickly be the least of your problems. Are you sure you are using the term "halyard wrap" correctly, or are you referring to something else?

Mark

 

[Project_Mayhem]

I wasn't able to get out on the water today due to dead batteries but I did some work and testing at the dock. I printed the new sheave, stuck it in a drill and sanded it smooth before installing it. I lowered the last block down about a inch. It's 18-24" away from the spool.

Anyways, there was no noticeable binding. I was able to pull the sail three feet past the mast before the angle of the line became too great. There was no wind in the marina to help it. I repeated the test a few times with the same results. However, there was a lot of constant resistance. The furler itself was smooth before launch at the beginning of July. I plan on lubricating all the blocks. Any other suggestions are greatly appreciated

 

[dLj]

I was able to pull the sail three feet past the mast before the angle of the line became too great.

You got photos of all how this is set-up?? What angle became too great?

dj

 

[Project_Mayhem]

You got photos of all how this is set-up?? What angle became too great?

dj

Just the sheet. The clew is above the deck so as it gets closer to the cockpit, the line angle increases and your pulling power is reduced to the point that you cant pull anymore without assistance from the wind. There was zero wind at the dock. All the tell tails were limp.

 

[jssailem]

What did you observe at the head of the sail?
Any sign of the halyard wrapped around the extrusion?
Is the remaining sail evenly wrapped around the extrusion?
As the sail is unwrapping does this appear to proceed evenly head to tack?
What is observed of the furler line wrap on the furler drum?

 

[Project_Mayhem]

What did you observe at the head of the sail?
Any sign of the halyard wrapped around the extrusion?
Is the remaining sail evenly wrapped around the extrusion?
As the sail is unwrapping does this appear to proceed evenly head to tack?
What is observed of the furler line wrap on the furler drum?

I honestly can't see enough detail to confirm much. I got the sail as high as it will go so the upper swivel is or is nearly touching the mast head. I can try to let a little bit of the halyard out in case it's loading up the bearings of the upper swivel

This boat is new to me and I don't have a baseline to compare it to. My last boat was a 25' with a 150% dacron genoa and Schaefer ball bearing stanchion blocks. Perhaps my laminate sail is heavier (thus more bearing load) and the non-bearing blocks are also causing more resistance. The furler on my current boat is one model up. The spool is a bit bigger but everything else looks the same. This one has Delron bearings. The PO said he did some work on it not too long ago. It spun fine when I had it removed from the boat. My previous boat had stainless bearings coated in Green Grease

The sail is wrapping around the furler nicely as long as I put some resistance on the sheet.

I didn't notice anything alarming in how it wound up. It's more even now that I lowered the final block.

I suspect the overall resistance has to do with the weight of the sail and/or bearings of the furler. There appears to be no more binding. The resistance is consistant