News showing sailboat sinking in Townsend Inlet, NJ - Poor judgement at issue?

[Scott T-Bird]

8 teens and 2 instructors had to be rescued last Wednesday in Avalon, NJ. The boat appears to be a J24 named "What Exit" and the cause was reported to be a "failed engine" - so the boat was washed onto the jetty and broke up. The group was from Avalon Yacht Club and it was apparently a boat used for instruction. The yacht club looks to me like it is a fairly swanky place probably with wealthy members and a highly organized sailboat racing schedule. Apparenty, among the 4 dinghy fleets, the adults also race with J24's, J30's and other models for offshore events. The protected waters in Avalon are very limited and it appears that sailors typically go out into the ocean thru the inlet and they have to signal for bridge openings (bascule bridge) to get out. I'm thinking that this club has highly experienced membership.

Which makes the whole situation fairly baffling, frankly. Who thought it would be reasonable to send 10 people out the inlet on a J24 with a small (3.5 hp?) outboard engine for propulsion? I went out Barnegat Inlet on Wednesday and back in Wednesday evening. With an east wind and riding an ebb current, the conditions were fairly rough and I think it would have been easily observed from their location that Townsend Inlet was too rough for their attempt. If they were going out before noon, they probably were near slack tide, but the ocean wasn't calm that day. My location was about 60 miles north but I assume conditions were similar. I can't get over the thought that 10 people on board a small boat with inadequate propulsion in a notoriously rough inlet was irresponsible over-confidence.

Embrace the stereotype? Boat named "What Exit" - William F. Yurasko

What Exit isn't just an unofficial state slogan for New Jersey, it's also the name of a boat docked in Avalon.

www.yurasko.net

 

[dlochner]

10 people on a J24 is simply nuts. Five people on that boat get in each other's way. The kids are the innocent ones, they trusted their instructors who will no doubt have a million excuses about why they weren't at fault. I hope that's the last sailing lesson they get to teach, don't overload a boat.

On another note, the Commodore of the AYC probably came close to a heart attack when he got the call. When I was Commodore of the Oswego Yacht Club, I got one of those calls from the CG. "We just rescued a bunch of kids from your sailing program." And calls from the media about the incident (no one was hurt, the kids handled themselves well and followed their training). Fortunately for the Club, the program involved was run by another (non-defunct) organization.

 

[Richard19068]

Wow! 10 on a J24? What were they thinking?

I thought 10 on the 28 foot power boat that capsized on Lake Tahoe was overloaded!

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Wow! 10 on a J24? What were they thinking?

I'm thinking that familiarity breeds complacency. A racing crew aboard a J24 can be up to 5, I believe, to handle all the sail controls and that boat has gone out the inlet numerous times. I suppose they got used to overloading the boat during benign conditions in protected waters. But heading into the inlet during rough conditions with a simple outboard and 10 persons aboard seems pretty foolish. I agree ... what were they thinking?

 

[shemandr]

I'm thinking that familiarity breeds complacency.

I agree.

 

[Foswick]

I try to avoid armchair debriefing. I only know what I saw in the news video and the news frequently gets the details wrong. So, I want to be careful not to make conclusions.

At face value, 10 people on a J24 is too many. However, I have packed a boat for short instructional trips before - not in those conditions, but I understand the reasoning.

I don't see any evidence to suggest that the instructors will try to avoid responsibility, so I think that is an unfair assumption. We also don't know what they knew or observed prior to the trip. I think we can assume that they had reason to believe this would be OK. It is easy to look at the outcome and assume negligence. But, if the outcome had been uneventful, at most the trip would have garnered a raised eyebrow at the number of people aboard.

What strikes me about the incident is the question of why they did not raise sails when the engine failed - especially since this was presumably an instructional outing. Then, I reviewed the video and it does not appear that a sail is even attached - though it is hard to see clearly. Again, trying to avoid judgment based on limited information, it does make me wonder what the plan was.

I would be curious to know more details before making conclusions such as:

• What was the purpose of the trip?
• Did they have sails? Were they attached? Why didn't they use them?
• What were the ages of the kids? Smaller is more reasonable in terms of physical space, but also more likely to be irresponsible. Not sure if there is a happy intersection where the kids are old enough but small enough for this to make sense.
• What did they know about conditions before going out past the bridge? What could they have known?
• What was their plan for an engine failure? Did they have and use a radio? Did they know help was nearby or did they get lucky?
• How long did they wait to call for rescue? In other words, how long did they try to get the engine started? What I really want to know is if they waited until the situation was desperate because, I would say that at the first signs of engine trouble, with that many kids aboard, the situation was immediately worth a "Pan Pan". Seeing what I believe were lifeguards on PWCs, I am wondering why the rescue was done so close to shore. It makes it appear that rescuers knew about the situation only when it got desperate. But, then again, there is no reason to assume lifeguards would have any awareness of such a radio call.
• Where was the club's rescue boat? If they do instruction, one would think they would have a small power boat for this exact purpose. This might get back to my first question as to the purpose of the trip.

 

[Tally Ho]

And then I heard about this tragedy in Miami Beach…

https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/two-children-killed-sailboat-barge-collision-off-miami-beach/

Sailing club out of the Miami Yacht Club.

Very sad.


Greg

 

[kappykaplan]

And then I heard about this tragedy in Miami Beach…

https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/two-children-killed-sailboat-barge-collision-off-miami-beach/

Sailing club out of the Miami Yacht Club.

Very sad.


Greg

This made the national news tonight.

 

[FastOlson]

Odd that no sails seen rigged up in the video. I wonder whether they could have quickly deployed an anchor? Maybe just too close to the rip rap and had no time?

(I mention that because it's common for the USGC to request that a boater calling for help -- first have everyone don a PFD, and then put down an anchor, while also dispatching a rescue craft. And it's just as common for the caller to say that they do not have an anchor or cannot find it.
This is often the case for a fishing boat at the often-rough mouth of the Columbia, crazy as it may sound. )

 

[JoeWhite]

Yes, just as mentioned above, why at least the main sail was not put up before they went out to the ocean. This is my training on my C36 before I exit from the marina since engines are not reliable. And why did they not drop the anchor? I can say that they were not prepared to go out for a sail, certainly not with 8 kids. When I take guests of 5 and I do not know where one of them is I am not happy, did he fall overboard?
I blame the instructors, I question their experience.

 

[dlochner]

And why did they not drop the anchor?

There is no anchor locker on a J24, the anchor, if they had one was probably buried down below, by the time it was found and deployed they would have been on the rocks.

Lots of inlets between break walls are pretty narrow, with current and wind there just isn't much time when things go sideways. Depending on conditions, boat traffic, wind, and current inlets can get real nasty with cross chop wake and squirrelly currents. It's not so much what they did or didn't do once in the inlet, the problem is they entered the inlet and were overloaded.

 

[thinwater]

Was the anchor ready to run (there was enough room)? Why not? Engines do fail between jetties (it's happened to me twice in 40 years in conditions like that--one was fuel the other was a floating rope) and there must always be a fast, simple plan in the skippers mind. One time I anchored, the other I sailed out. No harm. But my actions were quick and decisive, because I had a plan.

I can imagine that there simply was not enough room on the boat to do much of anything ... which is inherently irresponsible.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Earlier, I didn't notice that there seemingly was no main sail ready to go. I've come up with a theory ... I suspect that it was more or less an unauthorized joy ride. @Foswick got me thinking by questioning the purpose of the trip. The boat appeared to be loaded with older teens, probably high-school age. "Instructors" could have been college students on summer break working in this "country club" environment. All the teens grew up in this environment (vacation beach homes on the ocean) and were undoubtedly strong swimmers. It makes no sense to take 8 teens out for sailing "instruction" on a J24 (they probably all are quite proficient sailors already). The boat was owned by the yacht club so the "instructors" and the teens had access to it.

A rough day in the inlet with a fierce current is a perfect excuse to go for a sleigh ride. When I was in my 20's, I did similarly irresponsible things on various sketchy watercraft in dangerous environments ... that's what many of us have done in our irresponsible youth.

I'd have to admit that I experienced a thrill ride of my own on that same day as I smoked thru Barnegat Inlet reaching over 10 knots SOG with the current returning to port. I looked at the turbulence as I entered the inlet and felt the same rush of exhilaration that I'll probably never avoid even as I've reached my 8th decade.

It all went wrong, as things sometimes do when thrill-seeking, and they ended up in the water with a smashed boat. "What Exit" is an appropriate name for the whole fiasco. Not to worry about who knew they were out there. On a summer day like that, the jetty is undoubtedly loaded with people fishing and on-lookers, and the beach filled with lifeguards and rescue equipment is in close proximity.

edit: I was also struck by how calm the manager looked during his interview. Secondary to the safety implications, he was probably thinking about how he was going to "reprimand" the actors involved in this fiasco. Clubs like this surely have to deal with irresponsible shenanigans on the part of youthful members and I'm guessing that he has to "delicately" address the coddling parents! I've seen these situations before.

 

[Rick Webb]

Foolish? Perhaps. Silly? Depends. I could see me as a teen being right in the middle of something like that.
A J24 has room to sit 10 smaller bodies and by weight I doubt the boat was overloaded. The news readers really hyped this up to generate good TV and the chief is touting his team of rescuers, as he should. I'm not seeing this as inherently stupid.

I am of two minds if it was a bunch of kids who all sailed together and decided to go out in what was apparently a questionable day. I'd be supportive of them and applaud their enthusiasm, sense of adventure, and spirit. That sort of attitude is what allows for folks to have the courage to go to the moon and that sort of stuff.

If that was part of an organized program like a summer sailing camp, I'd be a bit more reticent in my enthusiasm for their actions. I still don't believe to boat to be overloaded but there should have been (and maybe there were or were supposed to be) precautions taken to mitigate the risk.

Glad everyone was ok and hope some heavy hand does not come down to smush the spirit of what appears to be great kids.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

If that was part of an organized program like a summer sailing camp, I'd be a bit more reticent in my enthusiasm for their actions. I still don't believe to boat to be overloaded but there should have been (and maybe there were or were supposed to be) precautions taken to mitigate the risk.

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I conclude that it was a joy ride. The "teens" on board weren't on the boat for instruction. There would only be one instructor and no more than 5 on board altogether. The "instructors" in these clubs are there to guide 6 to 10 year olds on Optis. The teens probably went thru that program long ago. The "teens" and "instructors" were most likely peers who were just wanting to have fun on the water in their free time. It didn't seem like there were any interviews from the "survivors". They probably were embarrassed and didn't want the attention!

 

[jssailem]

no sails seen rigged up in the video.

Joy ride? Possibly. Teens being teens? Likely.

Instructors? I would think they will be sent back to school and not be permitted to leave the bay. Recertification is needed.

Why no sail? It is a sail boat. The outboard is an AUXILIARY power resource.

I hope the club leadership and members take a serious review of their program.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Instructors? I would think they will be sent back to school and not be permitted to leave the bay. Recertification is needed.

I hope the club leadership and members take a serious review of their program.

The term "instructor" has a very loose definition here, I think. I'll bet dollars to donuts that the "instructors" are just youth members enjoying an easy summer job at "the club" teaching youngsters in Optis and Sunfishes. This is not anything like an ASA program. The median price for a home in Avalon is north of $2.8 M and a minimum of $5 M for anything close to the Ocean. And we're talking about beach homes here ... not primary residences. This is "Philadelphia Main Line" territory. The youth in this club dress in bermuda shorts, button-down shirts and blazers for their youth socials. This is as ivy-league as it gets. Nobody wants to be interviewed here and club management is just going to discretely sweep it under the rug. I've seen an example how these things get addressed. It's all very civilized and low-key. Nobody is going to be in any real trouble. The club manager already did his brief interview on the news. He basically said thankfully nobody has been hurt and we only lost a replaceable item. End of story. It's almost comical. It made me think of the mayor in Jaws (which we watched recently, again ). The weather is great, everybody is happy, and we're all having a wonderful day! The kids involved will get a slap on the wrist, if even that, and they will shed a tear for the demise of "What Exit".

Of course, my assessment may be completely wrong, but I'll bet we never hear anything more about this little incident.

 

[Foswick]

I'll bet we never hear anything more about this little incident.

Yeah, that's usually the case with most incidents. It's part of why I don't like to speculate too much - because I will never find out what really happened or why.

I think there is a part of boaters that wants to make sense of these incidents and, to some degree, hold people accountable - at very least to ensure they learn from the incident and don't repeat the mistakes. However, these sorts of incidents tend to be instructional on their own and tend to make those involved wiser and more cautious, even if it appears they "got away with it".

But, rest assured, there is always someone new who will step up to repeat the mistakes somewhere else.

I am hoping to convert my diesel engine to run on stupid because it is a renewable resource (and in no short supply on my boat).