Electric Furler

[Foswick]

I rather like the idea of an electric furler. Our current headsail furler needs some work. I need to replace some of the blocks the furling line passes through and the line itself has too much stretch. I was sitting on deck pondering this and had the wild idea of rigging my vertical windlass to operate as an electric furler, when not in use as a windlass. I eventually dismissed that idea as impractical, but I did get the idea of having an electric furler stuck in my head.

At the prices I've seen (something in the neighborhood of $6000 - $12,000+ USD), I don't want one that badly. But, I am pretty good at making this sort of thing myself.

My idea is to use the existing furler and install a motorized winch right next to it. So, the motor just does the job of winding/unwinding the line, but the line only has to go about a foot or so. Not sure, entirely what to do with the line - maybe it goes into little container that shares space with the anchor chain ... I don't know yet.

This approach would allow me to take the line off the electric winch and run it back to the cockpit, if the motor failed, and just furl like I currently do.

I like this idea, on paper, but think it would probably be pretty fussy, without some serious successive trial-and-error and revisions. Still, it falls under the heading "why not". I can power it off of the same circuit as the windlass, but just with its own solenoid ... I think ... since I would never power both motors simultaneously. I could even put in a relay to prevent it.

So, a few questions:

Anyone have experiences (good or bad) with electric furlers? Using them? Installing them? Maintaining them?

Anyone build their own?

See any problems with a design like I am considering? I realize many people won't think it is worth the additional system. Might be right. Still, I kind of like the idea.

 

[jssailem]

If I was sailing a 60 footer with massive sails, maybe such an expenditure might be considered. But on anything under 45 feet such hardware seems impractical on a sailing budget.

 

[Foswick]

Yeah, it isn't really a practical addition. For us, it is really about MOB response when only one crew member is on board.

However, we don't have the main halyard rigged to the cockpit yet, which is a higher priority ... so there's that. But, once that is done, I think I might consider building an electric furler.

Of course, a reasonable alternative would be to simply dedicate a self-tailing electric winch to the furler at the cockpit. Cheaper, will definitely work, and more versatile.

 

[garymalmgren]

Hi Foswick.
This might seem a good or interesting idea on paper, BUT.......
When furling and sometimes unfurling there is often a little hiccup.
Spin halyard caught up top, overlap in the drum, sheet still cleated off.
With a manual system you can "feel" these problems and sort them out pretty easily.
However with a powered system you could very quickly destroy (foil, top swivel, drum etc) or tightly wrap something.
I say, No to the power furler,
And, Yes "to we don't have the main halyard rigged to the cockpit yet, which is a higher priority"

Gary

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

This is a bad idea, for the reasons @garymalmgren stated. IMHO you should not try to apply the anchor windlass for this purpose. You will break something. If the furler isn’t turning smoothly it might be binding from wear or corrosion and need repair - continued use or forceful pull from an anchor windlass might break the headstay and bring down the entire standing rig!
On a 32 footer the forces should be manageable with your regular sail controls by pulling the furling line by hand, or hand-powered winch, unless you have an injury or orthopedic weakness. If not, as applicable to your situation - you should fix/rebuild the furler so it turns more easily or upgrade your cockpit winch to electric so you can manage it from there.
It would be better to upgrade your cabin top winch to electric, and reroute halyard and furler control lines to be able to utilize that winch. When rerouting lines, consider that the lines under load must feed the winch from slightly below and winch angle is critical to avoid overrides.

 

[colemj]

Yeah, what you and Larry said about installing a main electric winch on your cabin top (or wherever you would use a primary winch). Then you have a versatile tool that can raise halyards, take someone up the mast easily, trim sails, and be put to various short-term uses. Use some friction rings or snatch blocks on a soft shackle to position more temporary things like the furler line at the appropriate angles.

Another idea is to use a winch bit in a cordless drill for those times you want electric on an existing winch. I use my normal Milwaukee 18V hand drill to pull our dinghy into our davits (large and heavy dinghy that requires more force than a halyard or furling line to raise).

For those worried about damaging something using a winch, the drill solution allows the clutch to be set so that any abnormal force shuts it down.

Mark

 

[surfstud31]

I had the option of adding a Selden synchronized electric furling system on a brand new Catalina 356 but turned it down. Too expensive and another thing to go wrong. Plus I learned that the Selden electric winch doesn’t work manually if the power goes out. Perhaps on a bigger boat or if I was older and unable to handle the winches on my own. I certainly wouldn’t rig my own electric furling system. There is also the drill option others have mentioned here.

 

[PaulK]

We've had different friends with electric winches & systems have lots of fun with their boats. They've had override jams with crew at the masthead (two hours?), battens ripped through sails ($800?), and biminis torn and bent ($1300?) because the electric power is so quick and effortless. It is something I would definitely avoid, except perhaps for an anchor windlass.

 

[colemj]

We've had different friends with electric winches & systems have lots of fun with their boats. They've had override jams with crew at the masthead (two hours?), battens ripped through sails ($800?), and biminis torn and bent ($1300?) because the electric power is so quick and effortless. It is something I would definitely avoid, except perhaps for an anchor windlass.

I don't know - I'd point the finger at your friends rather than the winches. We've had electric winches on two different boats and never had those issues. A large number of boats we meet cruising have electric winches and never had those issues. Even those boats with newish sailors on them.

It's not like you push a button and 30' of line goes wizzing by uncontrolled. An electric winch slows and makes noise when it has an out of spec load on it same as a normal winch - so it definitely isn't quick and effortless in that regard.

Harken electric winches come with a load sensing solenoid that shuts it down under a defined load, if that is a worry.

Mark

 

[PaulK]

Perhaps it is the friends - but they're all accomplished sailors with decades of experience. ( One-design racing in a variety of craft, Bermuda & other races, long-term cruising boat owners.) Perhaps it is that there is just so much going on when operating these things and - because they're labor-saving devices so that you can sail shorthanded- there aren't enough eyes to keep watch on everything.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

but they're all accomplished sailors with decades of experience.

Well and good. Now they have even more experience and are less likely to repeat those mistakes.
I've had electric winches since 2009 and have experienced overrides, and runaway due to stuck switch contact. Overrides can happen on manual winches too. Most can be avoided with proper care and halted before tension gets too high to clear without extraordinary measures.
SOP on my boat when raising a human with the electric winch is: While raising NOT lock the line in the self-tailer, but raise the person while the rope clutch is closed to prevent back-slip. Do a test stop as the person gets close to the top, and be prepared to let the line slip on the drum if needed. While lowering: Always stand off to the side of the drum, lower the person smoothly hand-over-hand and stand far enough from the drum to eliminate the possibility of accidentally slipping a wrap over the top of the drum (even better if a second person is available to tail for the person controlling the line).

 

[jssailem]

it isn't really a practical addition. For us, it is really about MOB response when only one crew member is on board.

Planning for a random event like MOB might be better accomplished by:
1. Extending the livability of the person in the water by requiring PFD being worn. Studies have shown that even in winter water temps a person with a flotation device has the possibility of survival upto 60 minutes.
2. Teach all crew to handle the emergency. A boat under power and sails luffing can be guided to approach a person in the water. The key is to luff the sail. They do not need to be dropped and stowed. It would be nice if there is crew to do that, but approaching with the victim up wind and sails luffing will give the boat handler the quickest opportunity to provide assistance/rescue.
3. Teach crew the skills to get a person back on the boat even if they can not lift themselves. I use a lift rig that attaches to the side of my boat and can hold/lift/roll a person out of the water and up to the stanchions. It is one of several methods possible.
4. Have a plan to protect the victim once aboard to deal with injuries or hypothermia.
5. Teach crew how to contact emergency services.

That’s the essence of a plan. It is up to the skipper to flesh out the details for their boat and crew.

Cold Water Boot Camp

www.coldwaterbootcamp.com

 

[colemj]

For us, it is really about MOB response when only one crew member is on board.

I missed this part, and @jssailem is correct that you should have a plan for this regardless. If you are sailing short handed, like we do, then consider getting an AIS PLB for each lifejacket, and rig it to be automatically deployed with the jacket (I'm assuming an inflatable jacket). Then, if someone goes overboard, an alarm sounds on your chartplotter/AIS/radio/everything can receive DSC messages and the position of the person is marked and updated as an AIS SART target on all devices that can display AIS data. Our plotter automatically draws a return route to it.

Now, extra time before retrieving the MOB isn't as onerous because you have electronic eyes on them, and their position is exactly known at all times.. You can use this to better and more safely prepare the boat to return for the retrieval by getting the sails lowered, lines stowed/deployed, etc.

With a phone or tablet with a Nav/AIS program connected to an on-board network, you could even take the dinghy to go get them, even if they can't be seen.

Mark

 

[capta]

I sailed with a Hood electric RF mainsail. I loved it, but it did require a bit of maintenance and repairs.
One of the things I noticed was that between the motor and the foil there was a reduction gear. A whopping reduction gear. I don't remember the reduction gearing, but it was big. I realized that this was the most important part of the system. I could use a starter motor to drive the furler, but determining the correct reduction gearing and finding one that would fit in the space available was going to be the hard part, should I ever need to replace it.
However, if you are going to go forward with this project, I highly recommend that you forget the idea of an electric system, but consider building a hydraulic furler instead. It is much more resistant to water, much lighter and there is no need to have long heavy electric cables, or batteries, forward. Just a thought.

 

[imagine504]

I single-hand a 50 ft Catalina Morgan with an offshore-grade genoa of about 600 sq ft on a Schaefer furler. I furl it by hand, with one turn around a #30 winch. Doing this allows me to rest if I need to, or use leg power when it is heavily loaded. There are very few instances when I've resorted to using a winch handle. At 73, I figure when I can't furl by hand, I need a smaller boat. In the event of a man-overboard, I have other worries.

BTW, I have one electric winch which I could use in an emergency. Its primary job is raising a heavy full-batten mainsail, and reefing.