Chain splice

[Hayden Watson]

I am installling a new windlass that has a chain gypsy to replace the capstan rope only windlass that my boat came from. Because it would not haul up the chain, I only have 30' currently but it is only 3-years old and has no rust. I would like to add another 80' so am looking at splice options. I do not like the standard riveted Seafit connecting link because they are only 1/2 the strength of the G43 chain and are prone to rusting. What other options are there that will run through the windlass gypsy?

One out of the box option that I have thought about but never heard anyone else mention is a rope / chain splice to each section of chain. I have seen that this splice developed 70% or more of the breaking strength of the line and is already being used to connect the chain to the nylon. If I did this method, I would plan to replace the splice every two years as I currently do with my nylon rode but would be using new line each time.

 

[JoeWhite]

Interesting idea. I would think it would last as long as rode to chain splice. How often do you refresh that splice. If your anchor was stuck in mud just where your rode splice was at the chain gypsy, it might slip and not break free the anchor.
If I was faced with this choice, I would buy all new chain, no splice of any type.

 

[Rich Stidger]

The ACCO 5/16" G43 chain has a WL of 3900#. The Crosby G-335 link is 3/8" (that is the proper size for 5/15" chain) and has a WL of 2750#.

So the Crosby American-Made Forged link (not a Chinese POS) has a WL that is 70% of the G43 chain.

I have used this combination for years and sleep soundly. IMHO, if you are in a situation where the pull on the anchor is over 2750#, and the anchor is actually holding at that load, I think you have bigger problems than any possibility of a Crosby link failure.

But, your boat, your choice.

 

[Hayden Watson]

The ACCO 5/16" G43 chain has a WL of 3900#. The Crosby G-335 link is 3/8" (that is the proper size for 5/15" chain) and has a WL of 2750#.

So the Crosby American-Made Forged link (not a Chinese POS) has a WL that is 70% of the G43 chain.

I have used this combination for years and sleep soundly. IMHO, if you are in a situation where the pull on the anchor is over 2750#, and the anchor is actually holding at that load, I think you have bigger problems than any possibility of a Crosby link failure.

But, your boat, your choice.

Good to know. All of the ones I had seen were only 50% of G43. How well do they run through the gypsy?

 

[jssailem]

I like @Rich Stidger's suggestion. I would choose to run the 80 ft of chain to the anchor and have the 30 ft length on the windlass side. There are times when you would never have the splice in the water.

I think the rode-to-chain splice would also work. You would be able to see any wear on the splices and take action, if necessary, to correct any issues. I know the rode-to-chain splice on my chain glides smoothly over the gypsy without any issues.

 

[Rich Stidger]

Good to know. All of the ones I had seen were only 50% of G43. How well do they run through the gypsy?

Maybe a slight bump, but no jamming or chain jumping out of the gypsy.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Rope-chain splices don’t always run perfectly through the gypsy either. Mine goes fine on the way out, but when retrieving I need to reach into the anchor locker to pull tension on the rope as the splice goes through the gypsy. With a double splice I’d worry about it in both directions.

 

[colemj]

The ACCO 5/16" G43 chain has a WL of 3900#. The Crosby G-335 link is 3/8" (that is the proper size for 5/15" chain) and has a WL of 2750#.

The safety factor used for Crosby links is 4:1, while the safety factor used for G43 chain is 3:1, so the two are almost identical in actual breaking strength.

Mark

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

If I were considering this I’d just spring for the extra 30 feet and buy a new 110 foot length instead of 80. YMMV

 

[thinwater]

Is the OP suggesting short sections of rope between the chain bits, spliced at each end? If yes, there are several reasons this is NOT the same case as a chain/rope splice at the end of 100' of chain.

• The splice will drag side to side on the bottom with weight pressing it against the bottom. With the splice at the end of the rope, the splice is basically weightless and is normally at least some distance above the bottom, at least when there is any wind. This only takes enough wind to lift 1 link, which is to say about 1 knot.
• The splice will go through the windlass every time the boat is anchored. A splice at the end of 100' of chain may only go over the windlass a few times a year (anchoring in more than 20 feet of water) (depends on the area).
• Splices can go through a windlass, but they do "bump" and they can easily jam or slip if there is load on the chain. You can put tension on a chain in a windlass, but the gypsy does not grip rope with the same efficiency. It will also abrade it when it slips.

Just get 100 feet of chain. That is what I did when in your situation with my last boat.

 

[capta]

Good to know. All of the ones I had seen were only 50% of G43. How well do they run through the gypsy?

If you plan to use a snub line, or a line/chain combination, the extra strength chain is not worth the extra money. At any rate, if your boat weighs more than 3900 pounds, then it is doubly wasteful. Once your chain is tight between the anchor and a boat few, if any of us, can carry the weight necessary to have a chain rode that is actually strong enough to hold the boat.
BBB chain is anchor chain. All others are produced for other purposes. Considering that your anchor tackle is the most important safety equipment on a boat, IMO, wouldn't you want equipment designed specifically for that purpose?
Anchor tackle isn't free form art. Each part must be matched with the other. For instance, a 130# anchor on a 3/8" chain is ludicrous. In severe conditions, the chances are that a windlass isn't going to be strong enough to unset the anchor before the chain breaks.
Don't get bulldozed by those who think the answer to successful anchoring is just weight.

 

[Hayden Watson]

Rope-chain splices don’t always run perfectly through the gypsy either. Mine goes fine on the way out, but when retrieving I need to reach into the anchor locker to pull tension on the rope as the splice goes through the gypsy. With a double splice I’d worry about it in both directions.

In the case of a chain - rope - chain splice, I would make the rope between the two ends of the chain just long enough to accommodate the two 5-tuck splices which would be about a foot total. That would mean that the chain in the locker would still be partially elevated as the splice came through the windlass and that might provide the tension you are talking about.

 

[Hayden Watson]

If you plan to use a snub line, or a line/chain combination, the extra strength chain is not worth the extra money. At any rate, if your boat weighs more than 3900 pounds, then it is doubly wasteful. Once your chain is tight between the anchor and a boat few, if any of us, can carry the weight necessary to have a chain rode that is actually strong enough to hold the boat.
BBB chain is anchor chain. All others are produced for other purposes. Considering that your anchor tackle is the most important safety equipment on a boat, IMO, wouldn't you want equipment designed specifically for that purpose?
Anchor tackle isn't free form art. Each part must be matched with the other. For instance, a 130# anchor on a 3/8" chain is ludicrous. In severe conditions, the chances are that a windlass isn't going to be strong enough to unset the anchor before the chain breaks.
Don't get bulldozed by those who think the answer to successful anchoring is just weight.

I don't understand this comment. Are you saying that the weaker BBB chain is superior to G43? The windlass documentation says that both fit the Gypsy.

For discussion, my current anchor system is a 35-lb Mantus with 30' of 5/16" G43 chain and 250' of 1/2" 3-strand nylon.

 

[Hayden Watson]

I was looking at this article and it says that in their testing, the chain 3-strand back splice broke the rope at the chain link but the chain bas badly distorted, so all parts of the system were very near the failure point.
Rope-to-Chain Splice Test - Practical Sailor

 

[thinwater]

I don't understand this comment. Are you saying that the weaker BBB chain is superior to G43? The windlass documentation says that both fit the Gypsy.

For discussion, my current anchor system is a 35-lb Mantus with 30' of 5/16" G43 chain and 250' of 1/2" 3-strand nylon.

He's old school.

G43 and BBB chain are the same price now because G43 has become so common. For a 30' boat, you will use 1/4" G43, which will be cheaper than the required 5/16" BBB. The choice is obvious. There is no reason to use 5/16" G43 on a 30' boat. (ABYC H-40 calls for 1400 WLL for a 30' boat and 1/4" G43 is 2600# WLL).

Using a snubber reduces the load on the chain, true. It also reduces the load on the anchor and ever part of the ground tackle system. I didn't think the comment made a lot of sense.

What you need is 100' of 1/4" G43. That is what I had on my PDQ 34, which has far more windage than a 30' mono.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Just get 100 feet of chain. That is what I did when in your situation with my last boat.

Correct answer,
Why?
Here's why:
100ft of chain. The rest of the world can debate all they like. When I pull into a place like Bodega Bay at midnight and the fog is so thick I can't see the jetty 50 feet away to make an entrance, I drop my hook in the rolling ocean swells with the surf crashing (Foster says it's like staying in a cheap Best Western beside the highway), and I sleep. And in the morning I have a windlass to pull the beast up and I wouldn't trade it for anything. (I also wouldn't add more chain - this works perfectly in 25 to 30 feet of water - you let all the chain out and you tie off nylon at the preferred scope and don't bother with separate snubbers and chain hooks and all that stuff...)

 

[thinwater]

Correct answer,
Why?
Here's why:
100ft of chain. The rest of the world can debate all they like. When I pull into a place like Bodega Bay at midnight and the fog is so thick I can't see the jetty 50 feet away to make an entrance, I drop my hook in the rolling ocean swells with the surf crashing (Foster says it's like staying in a cheap Best Western beside the highway), and I sleep. And in the morning I have a windlass to pull the beast up and I wouldn't trade it for anything. (I also wouldn't add more chain - this works perfectly in 25 to 30 feet of water - you let all the chain out and you tie off nylon at the preferred scope and don't bother with separate snubbers and chain hooks and all that stuff...)

Good.

Several additions. I have known of several failures when there was only 5-8 feet of rope out, plus chain. The surging concentrates on the rope, and if this is their common practice, the rope fatigues.

I would offer instead, either use a snubber or bridle (multihulls) if all chain, or if you put out chain, deploy at least 20 feet so there is some length to absorb the surging. Just avoid chain plus only 5-8' of rope. It's hard on the rope.

I know a Gemini that anchored on all chain near breakers. The boat started snatching at the chain and snapped the chain. I would say the decision to use a snubber or not depends on the situation. For example, the Gemini was in shallow water (less than 10 feet) as multihulls often can and do, and that made the waves steeper.

If you avoid these sorts of situations, good. Then you don't need a snubber. Personally, I would use it anyway so that I don't have to listen to the chain grumble all night.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

I know a Gemini that anchored on all chain near breakers. The boat started snatching at the chain and snapped the chain.

Wow, when anchored and breakers build all bets are off. Snatch loads are likely to break something - whether it was the chain or something else. A longer snubber/bridle or a lot more scope would help reduce snatch loads, but obviously it’s best to avoid such situations.
I admit I’ve taken a chance a few times, anchoring in open water, but not without careful consideration of the forecast and tides/currents - and how conditions might change overnight.

 

[colemj]

BBB chain is anchor chain. All others are produced for other purposes.

This isn't true. G4 (and even non-BBB G3) is specifically made to fit DIN or ISO dimensions for anchor gypsies. Its only use in this form is for anchor windlass chain. I think you are confused that other types of chain also are made from G4 (and G3) material, and that BBB is only used for anchor chain.

BBB is unnecessarily heavy for less strength (or same strength as non-BBB G3). I see no reason to use BBB chain at all for anchoring anymore.

Mark

 

[colemj]

There is no reason to use 5/16" G43 on a 30' boat.

The OP's windlass has a 5/16" gypsy. It will cost 3x as much to replace the gypsy than to buy 5/16" chain over 1/4". The extra 47lbs of weight won't be that onerous.

Mark