Handcrank starting a small engine.

colemj

.
Jul 13, 2004
220
Dolphin Catamaran Dolphin 460 Mystic, CT
Going sideways in this thread a bit, what problems do people have with starting their engines? I can speak for us, and the many people I've helped with engine problems over the 16yrs we've been cruising outside of easily accessible land support.

In these instances, a dead start battery is probably the most common reason, but this is usually because it ran down trying to start the engine for a longish period of time because something else was preventing it from starting. It is also an easily solvable problem with a jump pack or ability to parallel in the house battery to start the engine.

A dead starter is probably the least common reason we've found. Starters do die, but they tend to do so with lots of warning. And much of the time it is actually poor or dirty connectors and not the starter. When it is the starter, it usually begins its relatively long death by not starting, but easily turning over when you whack it with a hammer. This can go on and off for quite a time before the starter actually stops working completely. Even then, the problem is almost always the solenoid, which can be jumped with a screwdriver. In my life, I can't remember a starter with clean connections and good ground and a good battery simply stop working without having given warnings in the past, nor one that has stopped and not being able to work by jumping the solenoid. I'm sure it happens, but it is rare. We still carry a spare starter though. The aftermarket ones are so inexpensive and take up little space so why not.

Other than the above, the more common causes for an engine not starting have been fuel issues, air issues, mechanical (injection pump, injectors, etc) and other reasons where having a hand-crank engine wouldn't help.

So a dead start battery is common, but more easily and quickly solved by other ways than hand cranking, and a suddenly and permanently dead starter is so rare I've never seen it, but solved with a $50 spare and 30min of time installing it. All other reasons for a dead engine are generally things that need to be solved before the engine will start by any means.

Mark
 

colemj

.
Jul 13, 2004
220
Dolphin Catamaran Dolphin 460 Mystic, CT
The story of the hurricane is indeed old, 1970's. However, that was not the reason for that specific case but rather the old adage - do not sail to a schedule. My friend had to get back to Europe by a specific date and was running late due to several events. He knew he was taking a risk - he lost the bet so to speak. That is not age dependent.

I just had another friend of mine crew on a catamaran from Guadalupe to the Azores. I had told her the timing was wrong, they needed to wait another couple weeks at a minimum. But the Captain wanted to leave when he wanted to leave. It was a horrible trip. They finally arrived to the Azores and had shredded every sail they had on the boat. They are actually lucky they arrived at all.
This will continue through the ages. There just isn't stopping some people, nor reasoning with them. We learned the schedule/being "antsy" lesson early, but continue to meet people who won't learn that lesson no matter how repeatedly beat up they get. Several times we've seen people leave into obvious weather and have terrible passages because they set that date for leaving weeks earlier, where literally waiting one more day gave us fantastic passages. There have been several times where we arrived at the same time as people who left earlier into worse weather, and that had nothing to do with relative boat speed potential.

It isn't just waiting - we've left an area weeks earlier than expected just because a good weather window opened then. We've also never scheduled a time and place to meet with anyone, unless we were already there and weather windows didn't matter. Anyone who wants to visit can choose either time or place, but not both.

This is such an old saw, but still happening regularly. And for some, continually Amazing.

On the other side of the fence, we have been places where "old salts" haven't left for years, and will argue with anyone that doesn't run away from them that it is never a good time to leave and they will die out there.

Mark
 

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
3,938
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
Yes, a catamaran with two engines. The spare engine quip was a joke because we rarely run both engines together.

If water reached our electronics, our engines would be underwater. By 6 feet or so. Even in a smaller monohull, I don't see how water would fill the boat to the level of the electronics and still allow engine operation. But I'm not sure what the electronics have to do with starting the engine? In our case, they do because we have electronic engine controls (to operate the engine - it starts without them), but that is unusual for most boats.

The reality is that no matter how nice it might be to have hand-crank engine capability, the number of boats with it, and the options to acquire it, are few and shrink every year. If one has one by inheritance, then great, but to imply that it is critical for a cruising boat ignores the fact that it is pretty much unobtainable today no matter how much one desires it.

If one puts hand-crank engine on their "must have" list, then it severely limits their options and choices. Much more than carrying a spare starter and redesigning the electrical to have a separate start battery with the ability to parallel the engine to the house battery. Or just carrying a spare $50 battery and keeping it charged.

Or a little jump pack :)

Mark
I think you missed my statement where i said "back in the day" it was considered an important safety feature. And indeed, while it may be anachronistic - it should not completely dismissed.

I do not have it on my.must have list - but it is on my nice to have list. But that list is quite long with most things in that list missing.

Since you are sailing a catamaran, the possibility of rolling your boat 360 degrees is pretty much out of the question. If you boat goes to 180, you are looking for rescue in all likelihood. If you recall the example I gave where my friend went through 3 - 360 degree rolls, you might begin to realize the boat does not need to be full of water to get water in places that could affect electronics.

I'm actually much more of the philosophy coined by the Pardies.

dj
 

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
3,938
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
This will continue through the ages. There just isn't stopping some people, nor reasoning with them. We learned the schedule/being "antsy" lesson early, but continue to meet people who won't learn that lesson no matter how repeatedly beat up they get. Several times we've seen people leave into obvious weather and have terrible passages because they set that date for leaving weeks earlier, where literally waiting one more day gave us fantastic passages. There have been several times where we arrived at the same time as people who left earlier into worse weather, and that had nothing to do with relative boat speed potential.

It isn't just waiting - we've left an area weeks earlier than expected just because a good weather window opened then. We've also never scheduled a time and place to meet with anyone, unless we were already there and weather windows didn't matter. Anyone who wants to visit can choose either time or place, but not both.

This is such an old saw, but still happening regularly. And for some, continually Amazing.

On the other side of the fence, we have been places where "old salts" haven't left for years, and will argue with anyone that doesn't run away from them that it is never a good time to leave and they will die out there.

Mark
Hahaha - in summary - you can't fix stupid!

sj
 

colemj

.
Jul 13, 2004
220
Dolphin Catamaran Dolphin 460 Mystic, CT
If you recall the example I gave where my friend went through 3 - 360 degree rolls, you might begin to realize the boat does not need to be full of water to get water in places that could affect electronics.
Sure, but I'm still not understanding how loss of the electronics prevents starting the engine. Many boats don't have any electronics at all other than a phone or tablet for navigation.

Mark
 

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
3,938
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
Sure, but I'm still not understanding how loss of the electronics prevents starting the engine. Many boats don't have any electronics at all other than a phone or tablet for navigation.

Mark
Most modern engines require electronic systems to run from electronic ignition, to electric fuel pumps. But the main difficulty is if you don't have battery power, you can't start the engine.

dj
 

colemj

.
Jul 13, 2004
220
Dolphin Catamaran Dolphin 460 Mystic, CT
Most modern engines require electronic systems to run from electronic ignition, to electric fuel pumps. But the main difficulty is if you don't have battery power, you can't start the engine.

dj
OK, I understand that. But if the engine requires battery power or electronics to run, then a hand crank start isn't going to work anyway. On the other hand, a jump pack will (for a while).

If I did have a boat that could roll 360 multiple times, I would have the means to greatly limit water ingress in the conditions that would cause that.

Mark
 

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
3,938
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
OK, I understand that. But if the engine requires battery power or electronics to run, then a hand crank start isn't going to work anyway. On the other hand, a jump pack will (for a while).

If I did have a boat that could roll 360 multiple times, I would have the means to greatly limit water ingress in the conditions that would cause that.

Mark
Kinda missing the point on that first paragraph, no? Diesels that have hand crank starting don't have any electronics - they are completely mechanical - including all fuel pumps, unless someone changed the fuel feed system.

As to your second paragraph... All I can say is, sh!t happens....

dj