Generic rubber wedges for mast support?

[BAD ORCA]

Can anyone think of any reason why something like these inexpensive rubber wedges would not work as mast wedges at the deck opening? I would have to order a sample, but assuming the rubber is not too squishy i cant see a problem with them. or a similar type of wedge. Spar-Tite has a pourable rubber which i'm assuming is just a particular durometer cheapo urethane rubber but is $300. CR Marine also has rubber wedges that are not cheap either at $100. I like the CR Marine wedge, but i would have to hack it to pieces as my mast opening is not even gap. Something like these are already cut to perfect size.

Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

 

[LloydB]

No experience with a keel stepped mast but I would think a wrap around would work better than a few door stops for moisture protection because of the segmented nature of the stops. If the position of the mast is not in perfect alignment with the opening in the deck than individual wedges may be faster to set up but more prone to leak.

 

[BAD ORCA]

No experience with a keel stepped mast but I would think a wrap around would work better than a few door stops for moisture protection because of the segmented nature of the stops. If the position of the mast is not in perfect alignment with the opening in the deck than individual wedges may be faster to set up but more prone to leak.

Thanks, yeah i agree and that thought crossed my mind, however I plan to follow the instructions on this page and have bought an SSI mast boot. The aluminum deck ring is already in place and bedded with Sikaflex. It has a 1.25" height flange that sticks up for clamping a mast boot. I plan to use Sikaflex under the boot/clamps and then tape over it. I'm hoping this would do the trick to seal out the water. I was going to use black locust for the wedges but this would be more expensive, time consuming and i'm not convinced any better than a dozen or so med/hard rubber wedges.

Das Boot! - The Rigging Company

There are many styles of mast boots and spreader boots. Just like with anything else, choosing the right product and installing it properly is essential to its functionality. Installing a mast boot that doesn’t leak, has a low profile, ensures that the chocks (pictured below) or Spartite...

theriggingco.com

 

[FastOlson]

Something like these are already cut to perfect size.

Looking at the door stops in the link, they are not suitable. The part that holds the spar between the spar and the deck "hole" needs very closely spaced vertical pieces like hard rubber or wood. Our boat has a set of L shaped pieces of wood, each about 3/4" wide. The top of the "L" keeps the pieces from falling thru.
The steep wedge of the door stop would slowly work its way up and out.
Here is a link with our mast partner visible and the wood pieces, and the cover over it to shed rain.

O34 - Mast Wedges & Gaiter, (Kenyon spar, O-34)

Back a couple decades ago, I replaced the factory hardwood wedges. They had put in four, with longer ones on each side. There were "corner" areas with no wedging/support, and it seemed like there should be more continuous support all the way...

ericsonyachts.org

I machined these out of some scrap pieces of teak, about 25 years ago. Most any medium or hard wood will do. No $ cost... just a little time.

 

[dlochner]

I don't think the door stops will work well. The wedges are subjected to a lot of compressive force. On a keel stepped mast the mast is a lever arm and the wedges are the pivot points. Thus as the masthead bends to leeward the mast butt is forced to windward, the leeward wedge is compressed between the mast and the partners. A water resistant hardwood or rubber are the best materials.

No experience with a keel stepped mast but I would think a wrap around would work better than a few door stops for moisture protection because of the segmented nature of the stops. If the position of the mast is not in perfect alignment with the opening in the deck than individual wedges may be faster to set up but more prone to leak.

The wedges are not there to stop water, that is what the Mast Boot is for. There are a number of different solutions of varying effectiveness for keeping water from coming through the partners. I've been quite happy with the Waterboot.

 

[cjm1]

I have a 55 ft keel step mast and use 3/8 inch x 4 inch conveyer belt with oak wedges made on a table saw.

 

[BAD ORCA]

I don't think the door stops will work well. The wedges are subjected to a lot of compressive force. On a keel stepped mast the mast is a lever arm and the wedges are the pivot points. Thus as the masthead bends to leeward the mast butt is forced to windward, the leeward wedge is compressed between the mast and the partners. A water resistant hardwood or rubber are the best materials.

The wedges are not there to stop water, that is what the Mast Boot is for. There are a number of different solutions of varying effectiveness for keeping water from coming through the partners. I've been quite happy with the Waterboot.

So something like the CR Marine wedge or Spartite? They say its 'rubber' (CRM) in the description but i have never used one or knows anyone who has. Its marketed as a mast wedge so must be the appropriate durometer. If i used the CRM wedge, I dont think it would fall through. According to their specs, the dimensions at the top are a lot thicker than the gap i need to fill. I would probably cut it into narrower pieces so i could get it to fill in around the mast nice and snug like FastOlsens pic of his wood wedges. I could then trim them at the top evenly once they are all in if they are rubber and try to figure out a way to keep them from slipping upward.

Rubber Mast Chocks

CR Marine rubber mast chocks are the perfect solution when you need to support an aluminum or carbon fiber mast as it passes through the deck collar.

custom-rubber.myshopify.com

Making wood wedges will be a real PITA. I would have to hand cut and shape every single wedge at the boat with hand tools. Not impossible but would be a chore.

 

[BAD ORCA]

Looking at the door stops in the link, they are not suitable. The part that holds the spar between the spar and the deck "hole" needs very closely spaced vertical pieces like hard rubber or wood. Our boat has a set of L shaped pieces of wood, each about 3/4" wide. The top of the "L" keeps the pieces from falling thru.
The steep wedge of the door stop would slowly work its way up and out.
Here is a link with our mast partner visible and the wood pieces, and the cover over it to shed rain.

O34 - Mast Wedges & Gaiter, (Kenyon spar, O-34)

Back a couple decades ago, I replaced the factory hardwood wedges. They had put in four, with longer ones on each side. There were "corner" areas with no wedging/support, and it seemed like there should be more continuous support all the way...

ericsonyachts.org

I machined these out of some scrap pieces of teak, about 25 years ago. Most any medium or hard wood will do. No $ cost... just a little time.

I like the idea of the Sunbrella cover. Do you think it actually helped, or has the vinyl degraded anyways?

 

[sailme88]

My previous boat was keel stepped and used wedges, the current boat is also keel stepped and came with Spar Tite. Hands down, no questions the SparTite is by far the absolute BEST ! I step and unstep every year. The solid rings guarantees that the mast is centered in the deck collar. The wedges offer the opportunity for them to drop into the cabin and fight you when trying to balance the gaps...

 

[dlochner]

So something like the CR Marine wedge or Spartite? They say its 'rubber' (CRM) in the description but i have never used one or knows anyone who has. Its marketed as a mast wedge so must be the appropriate durometer. If i used the CRM wedge, I dont think it would fall through. According to their specs, the dimensions at the top are a lot thicker than the gap i need to fill. I would probably cut it into narrower pieces so i could get it to fill in around the mast nice and snug like FastOlsens pic of his wood wedges. I could then trim them at the top evenly once they are all in if they are rubber and try to figure out a way to keep them from slipping upward.

Rubber Mast Chocks

CR Marine rubber mast chocks are the perfect solution when you need to support an aluminum or carbon fiber mast as it passes through the deck collar.

custom-rubber.myshopify.com

Making wood wedges will be a real PITA. I would have to hand cut and shape every single wedge at the boat with hand tools. Not impossible but would be a chore.

Spartite is a love it or hate it product. If installed absolutely perfectly it works well. If a mistake is made, especially by not adequately coating the surfaces with lubricant it is terrible. The Spartite essentially glues the mast to the boat and is exceedingly difficult to remove. I've watched people spend days chipping away at it and watched a crane try to pull the mast out only to lift the boat.

The partners in @FastOlson's photo have cast in notches that are probably ¾" across. This design helps to keep the wedges in place and determines the number of wedges needed. Your partners may or may not have them. Wedges don't slip upwards, if they are too small they may slip down, but never up. Friction and the weight of the mast keep them down. The wedges should be very snug when they are installed.

The CR Marine wedges will probably work well.

The solid rings guarantees that the mast is centered in the deck collar. The wedges offer the opportunity for them to drop into the cabin and fight you when trying to balance the gaps...

The collar (partners) may not, well probably not be dead centered on the boat. So using the gaps around the mast to determine if it is centered may or may not work. Center the mast head in the boat by measuring the distance from the masthead to points on each side of the boat that are equidistant from the stem and ensure the mast is straight side to side.

 

[JoeWhite]

I like the idea of the Sunbrella cover. Do you think it actually helped, or has the vinyl degraded anyways?

Yes that is what I did. Custom made cover.

 

[BAD ORCA]

Spartite is a love it or hate it product. If installed absolutely perfectly it works well. If a mistake is made, especially by not adequately coating the surfaces with lubricant it is terrible. The Spartite essentially glues the mast to the boat and is exceedingly difficult to remove. I've watched people spend days chipping away at it and watched a crane try to pull the mast out only to lift the boat.

The partners in @FastOlson's photo have cast in notches that are probably ¾" across. This design helps to keep the wedges in place and determines the number of wedges needed. Your partners may or may not have them. Wedges don't slip upwards, if they are too small they may slip down, but never up. Friction and the weight of the mast keep them down. The wedges should be very snug when they are installed.

The CR Marine wedges will probably work well.



The collar (partners) may not, well probably not be dead centered on the boat. So using the gaps around the mast to determine if it is centered may or may not work. Center the mast head in the boat by measuring the distance from the masthead to points on each side of the boat that are equidistant from the stem and ensure the mast is straight side to side.

Interesting, thanks. Yeah i have read some horror stories with Spartite. I have done a lot of mold making and casting though so understand how insane urethane will stick if you miss any areas with mold release. I have to do a bit more research on it. I like the idea of pouring it in and filling up between the mast and collar, i'm just not sure I can seal the underside adequately so it doesnt all leak out, or how to keep the mast positioned still in its place while it sets up and cures. I'll have to give this a little more thought over the week before I order anything.

 

[BAD ORCA]

I have a 55 ft keel step mast and use 3/8 inch x 4 inch conveyer belt with oak wedges made on a table saw.

Interesting idea.

 

[dlochner]

Interesting, thanks. Yeah i have read some horror stories with Spartite. I have done a lot of mold making and casting though so understand how insane urethane will stick if you miss any areas with mold release. I have to do a bit more research on it. I like the idea of pouring it in and filling up between the mast and collar, i'm just not sure I can seal the underside adequately so it doesnt all leak out, or how to keep the mast positioned still in its place while it sets up and cures. I'll have to give this a little more thought over the week before I order anything.

Even with Spartite, it would be a good idea to to use a cover like Das Boot or Water Boot and a Sunbrella cover. The Sunbrella is there for UV protection, the other items a belt and suspenders approach to keeping things dry.

 

[BarryL]

Hello,

My previous boat was a C&C 110 with a keel stepped mast. There were wedges and a mast boot. The mast was flexible and would move quite a bit in breezy conditions. The teak mast wedges would fall out, rot, and have other problems. I replaced them with rubber wedges but those would also fall out in real windy conditions. I eventually gave up on the wedges and used Spartite. I followed the (simple) instructions and I was happy with the results. No more wedges falling out. A lot less water coming down through the mast. I used amalgamating tape around the mast and I had no problem unstepping and restepping the mast.

Good luck,
Barry