What is the oldest build date boat to buy today do to the way insurance companies are doing? Sold my Craftsman built 2 years ago and want another boat today as spring is just around the corner.
Oldest Boat to Buy
- Thread starter warren5421
- Start date
Depends a bit on the boat, the manufacturer and the boat's value. Generally, insurance companies start getting nervous about 30 year old boats, they will insure them if the survey is good. You will probably have better luck with companies specializing in boats as the underwriters will have a better understanding of boats and value.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,290
That is a difficult question to answer. Some boats are 100 years old and have many years ahead. I have a boat that was built in 1974. It is insured.
I think it is more about buying a solidly built boat with a sound structure and design that meets the owner's needs.
I think it is more about buying a solidly built boat with a sound structure and design that meets the owner's needs.
My suggestion is to not rely on the good intentioned responses you receive from participants here. This is a highly variable issue, the answer to which is a function of many variables. Not just age.
Ask your marine underwriter.
Morgans have a reputation as a solidly built boat. If/when you make an offer on one, make a satisfactory survey and obtaining insurance as contingencies. It might be wise to begin shopping for insurance now, no one will give you a firm quote on a hypothetical boat, but they may indicate their willingness to consider insuring the kind of boat you are looking at.
Perhaps avoid these.
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12 Oldest Boats in the World - Oldest.org
Discover the 12 Oldest Boats in the World here. Prepare to be transported into a rich & fascinating history on the Oldest Boats in the World that exist.
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Liability insurance or hull insurance? You need a liability policy for most marinas but hull insurance (the expensive part) is totally up to you.... also, depending on the agreed value, it may be easy or difficult to find what you want. So really, best way to go is to make an offer subject to satisfactory insurance. A good place to start is the present owner's insurance company. Avoid going through more than one broker, that will cause your file to be flagged by insurance companies and may cause problems getting insurance (companies don't let multiple brokers quote the same vessel).
This is the best advice.
As a note, 35 feet is one thing, 41 is very much another...
dj
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,290
From Sailboatdata
MORGAN YACHTS
Charles Morgan was already well known as a designer of one particularly successful racer, 'Paper Tiger', when he started building another of his designs, the TIGER CUB, on his own. But it wasn't until 1965 when he joined forces with long time friend, Bruce Bidwell, and began to build the successful MORGAN 34. This was followed, most notably, by the MORGAN 24, 30, 41, and 45.
The OUT ISLAND 41, introduced in 1970, became legendary as a no-frills, center-cockpit standard, especially in the charter trade.
Charles Morgan's involvement in the company ended in 1972.
Since that time, the company was passed from one corporate entity to another, until it came into the hands of Catalina Yachts in 1984. Catalina continued with a few models, including the OUT ISLAND 41, before the Morgan name was retired.
Years in Business: 1963 - 1992
In the
The 41 was last built in 1972. The 35 is likely younger, first built in 1970. Catalina was involved in the later built Morgan's that carry the name "Morgan Out Island".
MORGAN YACHTS
Charles Morgan was already well known as a designer of one particularly successful racer, 'Paper Tiger', when he started building another of his designs, the TIGER CUB, on his own. But it wasn't until 1965 when he joined forces with long time friend, Bruce Bidwell, and began to build the successful MORGAN 34. This was followed, most notably, by the MORGAN 24, 30, 41, and 45.
The OUT ISLAND 41, introduced in 1970, became legendary as a no-frills, center-cockpit standard, especially in the charter trade.
Charles Morgan's involvement in the company ended in 1972.
Since that time, the company was passed from one corporate entity to another, until it came into the hands of Catalina Yachts in 1984. Catalina continued with a few models, including the OUT ISLAND 41, before the Morgan name was retired.
Years in Business: 1963 - 1992
In the
The 41 was last built in 1972. The 35 is likely younger, first built in 1970. Catalina was involved in the later built Morgan's that carry the name "Morgan Out Island".
Don S/V ILLusion said:
My suggestion is to not rely on the good intentioned responses you receive from participants here. This is a highly variable issue, the answer to which is a function of many variables. Not just age.
Ask your marine underwriter.
Best advice for this sort of thing
As with much that I do, I went about it the wrong way. But in the end I am happy with the outcome. I bought a boat that I knew would need work. It was well below book value, which raised eyebrows when I called about getting it insured. I was able to get a range of cost from the insurance company, but they would not sell me a policy until I had a survey done. I got a survey which was about twelve pages long with every little detail. I submitted the survey. The insurance company sent me a quote based on the "repairs" and recommendations they deemed necessary to be acceptable. I did much myself, however I don't do standing rigging. That's scary stuff when you have no idea how old the standing rigging was. I found a great local rigger, who did a great job, taking into consideration of future upgrades (i.e rolling fuller) etc. Once I completed every required item, I had an amendment inspection. The surveyor was more than pleased. Gave me A+ on all required and all other recommended bullet points. Needless to say, he was really impressed at my work and I got the biggest smile on my face. Once I submitted the amended survey to the insurance company, I was granted coverage.
As a footnote to all of this, much of my upgrades and repairs was supported by you folks on this forum. There is a wealth of knowledge with the group and I appreciate everyone's help.
My suggestion is to not rely on the good intentioned responses you receive from participants here. This is a highly variable issue, the answer to which is a function of many variables. Not just age.
Ask your marine underwriter.
Best advice for this sort of thing
As with much that I do, I went about it the wrong way. But in the end I am happy with the outcome. I bought a boat that I knew would need work. It was well below book value, which raised eyebrows when I called about getting it insured. I was able to get a range of cost from the insurance company, but they would not sell me a policy until I had a survey done. I got a survey which was about twelve pages long with every little detail. I submitted the survey. The insurance company sent me a quote based on the "repairs" and recommendations they deemed necessary to be acceptable. I did much myself, however I don't do standing rigging. That's scary stuff when you have no idea how old the standing rigging was. I found a great local rigger, who did a great job, taking into consideration of future upgrades (i.e rolling fuller) etc. Once I completed every required item, I had an amendment inspection. The surveyor was more than pleased. Gave me A+ on all required and all other recommended bullet points. Needless to say, he was really impressed at my work and I got the biggest smile on my face. Once I submitted the amended survey to the insurance company, I was granted coverage.
As a footnote to all of this, much of my upgrades and repairs was supported by you folks on this forum. There is a wealth of knowledge with the group and I appreciate everyone's help.
This morning I received the monthly Noonsite.com newsletter. There were several ads from insurance companies or agents specializing in yacht insurance for world travelers. They might be in a better position to advise on marine/yacht insurance matters than the local insurance agent.
As a "ball park" evaluation of the annual cost insurance I usually look at the ratio of premium $ vs Agreed Value. It works out to approximately $100. per $1000. of value.
i.e. if your boat has a value of $100K, you will pay $1K per year to insure it; for that fixer-upper you bought for 5K, it will be a lot less.
If you self-insure for replacement and opt for Liability Insurance only, the cost will be lower yet. (You just have to budget your cash reserves for the possibility of the loss...)
The problem for most owners of neglected boats is that the Risk of a loss goes up disproportionately as the whole boat ages beyond 25 or 30 years and major systems and structures start failing due to poor (or no) maintenance. And "risk" is what insurers really dislike.
Don't feet too bad about the expenses, tho..... you could own an airplane!
i.e. if your boat has a value of $100K, you will pay $1K per year to insure it; for that fixer-upper you bought for 5K, it will be a lot less.
If you self-insure for replacement and opt for Liability Insurance only, the cost will be lower yet. (You just have to budget your cash reserves for the possibility of the loss...)
The problem for most owners of neglected boats is that the Risk of a loss goes up disproportionately as the whole boat ages beyond 25 or 30 years and major systems and structures start failing due to poor (or no) maintenance. And "risk" is what insurers really dislike.
Don't feet too bad about the expenses, tho..... you could own an airplane!
30' and 30 years seem to be magic numbers for insurance underwriters.
May just be a Florida thing but a buddy at our club had a very difficult time getting a liability policy on a 30 year old Catalina 30. He has no history of claims and has owned and insured several boats over the years.
I'd start by walking around the docks and asking guys who have boat similar to what you are looking for who they use and their experience on the issue. Florida and Indiana are probably like comparing apples and coconuts.
May just be a Florida thing but a buddy at our club had a very difficult time getting a liability policy on a 30 year old Catalina 30. He has no history of claims and has owned and insured several boats over the years.
I'd start by walking around the docks and asking guys who have boat similar to what you are looking for who they use and their experience on the issue. Florida and Indiana are probably like comparing apples and coconuts.
To reiterate again, as the saying goes, when a boat gets older than a "certain" age, insurers need to see real proof not just that it passes the 20 foot test (exists and appears to float), but that the structure and systems are actually up-to-date.
Having changed insurers recently I had zero problem insuring, armed with a current survey certifying a full re-fit.
That all said, there are evidently *major insurers that want to insure only assets that statistically are safer for them, like vessels under XX years of age. Also, they know that the bulk % of the potential vessels out there were built to a low standard and sold for very-little money when they were new. Those boats do not age well, and require large expenditures to bring them up to date and a lot more potential expense to upgrade basic structure and engineering that was under-spec'd even when new. (sigh...)
*Insurers can (greatly?) reduce their skilled labor costs -i.e. "overhead"- by employing claims adjusters with minimal knowledge of boats, engines, rigging, or engineering. I believe that with some exceptions, real boating knowledge is nowadays found at the Insurance Broker level in the industry.
This is based on only my experience, and.... YMMV, as the old truism goes.
Get a “would-be quote” for the boat that you may try to buy. Do not “bite” then ask about insurance. I doubt anybody here can really answer, as said above.
I don't trust any boat made after about 1980. They are just too new to know how they'll stand up. Still working out those new-boat kinks.
Not to be stickler... but something isn't right with this. $100/$1000 would make the insurance $10k for the $100k boat... somewhere you are missing a 0.
$10k/$100k or $1k/$10,000 may be true for some insurance, but honestly I'm paying closer to $100/$5,000 for my agreed value policy (I think even better, but don't have the bill by me right now... maybe I'm in boat denial!)