Another chainplate question

[timpete]

Hi all, looking for feedback on my chainplates. Bought my '86 Oday 222 a couple years ago. Have seen a lot of discussion here about Oday 22-25 chainplates, and wanted to get feedback on how mine look. See pictures attached. The port chainplate looks to have had extensive dryrot in the chainplate mounting area of the bulkhead - it's almost entirely eaten away - I'm inferring that the previous owners added the metal straps shown that extend mounting point lower into the non-rotted bulkhead area. I'm wondering if the gelcoat crazing on the port chainplate indicates that one was about to fail - or conceivably actually failed and pulled through - which triggered the repair. Both chainplates don't leak in the rain (i've checked) although I'll reseal top next spring.

Anyways - the advise I'm looking for from this forum is: Does the repair method shown, with the extender straps tying the chainplate to non-rotted bulkhead area look ok? The bulkhead area where the extender metal straps are tied to looks solid (shocked at the thinness of the bulkhead plywood, however!) I know people suggest replacing oday 222 chainplates with e.g. oday 25 chainplates, and that is probably something i'll undertake in the next decade if I keep this boat and sail more often on larger waters, but just looking for some guidance on how my boat looks. Honest advice appreciated. Aware of the adage "if you're wondering if you should replace the chainplates, you should have already replaced the chainplates".

Thanks!!

 

[Tally Ho]

They don’t look too bad, but the damage is usually where the plate passes through the deck.. you can’t see that without pulling them out.

There is evidence of water infiltration at the deck, and in the bulkhead as you know.

Are the photos of just 1 chain plate? Because it looks like they both have the extension. If they both have it, I wonder if that is the way they were originally constructed? Certainly the extension helps spread the load further down on the bulkhead, particularly useful when there is some damage to the upper end of the bulkhead.

Greg

 

[dlochner]

To answer the important question, "is this an OK repair?" The answer is a resounding NO.

The bulkhead is rotting, it will not get better on its own and the rot will continue to spread. As a temporary repair to get through a season in a well protected sailing area, it might be OK, for a long term permanent repair, no.

Then bulkead anchors the chainplates and distributes the load to the hull, supports the cabin top, and helps to keep the two sides of the boat apart. The rot has already compromised 2 of those functions. Yes, there is (or should be) a compression post to support the mast, but that is only part of the equation.

The proper repair is to remove and replace the bulkheads and seal the chainplate openings to stop the leaks. The chainplates should also be inspected for corrosion, although if the boat is a freshwater boat, this is not a big possibility, but ya never know.

It's a good long winter project.

 

[jssailem]

One of these is not like the other.

Your chainplate is made up of two pieces. On the other 3 images the small L shaped plate is on the top. The L shaped plate is of thinner material. I think having it on the top of the lower strap makes sense. You will be better able to see the material and if corrosion starts may be able to correct it.

I do not see any obvious issues with the Chainplates. The bulkheads show obvious deterioration that at some point will need repair.

 

[timpete]

The first two pics are the two sides of the port bulkhead and chain plate mounting and the second two are starboard. The starboard bulkhead is in better shape. The exterior pic with the crazing is the port chain plate.

appreciate the responses - I sail in protected fresh water but occasionally trailer to larger lakes where can be some wave pounding action.

I also noticed the one strap that was not like the others.

yes clearly I’m aware of the bulkhead deterioration but I took it as more of a static problem and not a high risk due to the lower strap to what appears to be sound plywood.
Still curious to know if the strap / extensions on my boat are a fix or original. Anyone else with a “stock” oday 222 would be interested to see a picture.

The more I think about it, if the top of the bulkhead was eaten away by rot that could cause extra strain (evidenced by crazing) because the top of the bulkhead that takes up the strain is soft or gone.

agree it needs to be addressed at the bulkhead but demands on my time are many so just trying to evaluate how urgent of issue to prevent a (god forbid) dismasting

 

[Robert Strickland]

I probably should say that I recognize 2 or 3 people above who responded and they're always showing more experience than me... BUT...
1. The cracking above on the deck tells me its already flexing
2. Someone above noted already "...it don't get better..."
3. The bulkhead its bolted to, is rotted so 1/2 the bolts are doing the intended job
4. My opinion, "Its january and there's a few months before getting in the water" so now is the time to address it
(Your actual question, how urgent is it? Well, can you feel fine in strong wind in Summer 2025 with lived ones on board? I wouldn't be comfortable.)

I replaced chain plate, and fiberglass holding the plate "foot" and I over built it s a bit (Irrational fear maybe, first time) and I still ran the boat myself afterwards just in case.

A failure on these, has the risk of catastrophe.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

I would replace the rotten bulkhead and reseal all chainplates with Bed-IT. The bulkheads on my Oday 25 looked similar to yours. It looked better than it actually was. I was able to push a screwdriver into the wood without much force. We're happy to guide you through this process. It looks daunting but remember, you're simply replacing a piece of plywood

 

[Robert Strickland]

I would replace the rotten bulkhead and reseal all chainplates with Bed-IT. The bulkheads on my Oday 25 looked similar to yours. It looked better than it actually was. I was able to push a screwdriver into the wood without much force. We're happy to guide you through this process. It looks daunting but remember, you're simply replacing a piece of plywood

I like you guys who can say it way easier than me and all my words

 

[timpete]

@Robert Strickland @Project_Mayhem @jssailem et al., appreciate all the input. You all have convinced me to replace the bulkhead in spring 2025 when out of the barn but before hitting water. I do quite a bit of DIY woodwork, so yeah, the voice of reason above is "remember, you're simply replacing a piece of plywood". I sealed a leaky pulpit flange with bed-it last year so can easily do that on the chainplates.

I'll plan to keep the existing chainplates if I can get a good look at them and confirm the bend in the "L"s look solid with no signs of strain, unless the quorum here thinks strongly that I should buy new ones. Also if someone sent me a link with easy to purchase online Oday 25 chainplates that might sway me to buy something a bit overbuilt.

How should I plan to anchor the chainplates to the (new) bulkheads? Metal extension straps such as what I've shown in pics and is already in place?

Thanks!! Didn't realize such a helpful online forum for owning a random 40 year old boat would exist, what a luxury...

 

[Robert Strickland]

@Robert Strickland @Project_Mayhem @jssailem et al., appreciate all the input. You all have convinced me to replace the bulkhead in spring 2025 when out of the barn but before hitting water. I do quite a bit of DIY woodwork, so yeah, the voice of reason above is "remember, you're simply replacing a piece of plywood". I sealed a leaky pulpit flange with bed-it last year so can easily do that on the chainplates.

I'll plan to keep the existing chainplates if I can get a good look at them and confirm the bend in the "L"s look solid with no signs of strain, unless the quorum here thinks strongly that I should buy new ones. Also if someone sent me a link with easy to purchase online Oday 25 chainplates that might sway me to buy something a bit overbuilt.

How should I plan to anchor the chainplates to the (new) bulkheads? Metal extension straps such as what I've shown in pics and is already in place?

Thanks!! Didn't realize such a helpful online forum for owning a random 40 year old boat would exist, what a luxury...

I'm still sticking with "don't change something that took 40 years to fail" so whatever bolts are there in the same holes as the new wood. (Assuming "new wood" is cut using old wood as a template.)

I didn't understand "straps" or what you meant there but probably best to stick simple... "don't buy Dollar Tree bolts" and consider the spend on a marine store matching bolt length and diameter.

Once its all "Structurally completed" consider how you're keeping the water out for future. (Maybe controversial comment coming, but there is a right way and a right product, probably $28 butyl tape role and you'll use 6 inches and have butyl left over forever. CONTROVERSY... jam the household caulking on the above deck area and if you re caulk every year it's $6.)

 

[Project_Mayhem]

Full threaded bolts can result in elongated holes. The threads act like teeth on a saw blade. Your rigging is constantly being pulled back and forth by the wind and waves.

I've posted the overall procedure on how to replace the bulkhead. If you cant find it, just let me know. I'll be happy to share my knowledge. There's a few tips and tricks that will save you time and aggravation

 

[Project_Mayhem]

Below is one of the posts. Here's some additional tips:

• A grinder with a flap disc might be helpful for getting the plywood shape and thickness (at the top/bottom) correct. My plywood was too thick. I pounded it in. I wouldn't recommend it but no issues when I sold the boat six years later. It would likely take a slide hammer to remove it
• I used a grinder with a flap disc to clean the old tabbing from the hull
• It's advised to add some support to the boat if the bulkhead is out for a while. Some people suggested wedging a 2x4 between the cabin floor and roof. I think the compression post is so close to this bulkhead that it serves this purpose. My bulkhead was out for at least a month with no issues
• I traced my bulkhead out on to the new plywood and cut it by hand with a jigsaw. I copied the angle of cut that the original had at the top. It was far from perfect but the boat was designed to hide a lot of flaws
• Pay attention to how far the bulkhead sticks out before removal. My replacement stuck out about 1/2" too much and I had to modify the trim piece to get it to fit again
• Before removal, take note of how much overlap the wall covering has on to the bulkhead. If your fiberglass tape overlaps too much you will have a tough time hiding it
• My chainplate was bedded with 4200 by the previous owner. This was helpful because it stayed in place after I removed the bulkhead. There was no guessing where the holes needed to be drilled in the new bulkhead. Once this step was done, I switched to Bed-IT
• On some boats, there was no tabbing between the bulkhead and the hull. If yours has it you'll want to do two things -- Leave a gap between the bulkhead and the hull. And dont let the tabbing on either side touch one another in this gap. The theory is that this prevents rubbing as the hull moves

Remember that you're simply replacing some plywood. It's work but it's not complicated.

The bulkhead is time consuming but very straightforward. After all, all you're doing is replacing a piece of plywood. The PO of my boat bedded the chainplates with 4200. While I'm also a big fan of BedIT butyl tape, the 4200 kept the chainplate in the same position so there was no question on where I needed to drill the holes when the new plywood was in place. If your plywood is a bit thicker than the original you'll probably need to sand or grind the edge down a bit to make it slide into the slot in the fiberglass. You may need to do a little bit of trim work to get it to fit but I was surprised at how sloppy the cut could be and still have it look and function well.

The port side should be a bit easier since you don't have a bunch of cabinetry to disassemble. You may run into some issues with plywood thickness when re-attaching the trim work on the straight edge of the cut board. I would also advise you to get the same width fiberglass tape as what the factory used to ensure you don't run into any issues (although they're pretty minor if you use wider tape).

A couple of areas that may be prone to water damage is the wood for the lower gudgeon and the anchor rode locker if yours' is below deck. The rode locker isn't crucial by any means and I will probably never replace the rotted plywood in the bottom of mine.

O'Day used silicone to bed the deck fittings so you'll want to rebed them to avoid more deck damage.

I've never heard of a Yanmar in an O'Day 25. I'd love to see a pic if you have time!

The full keel 25 is kinda rare. I have a centerboard version and I've found that while it is a lot of work, it's one tough boat! We do a lot of heavy weather sailing and it has never even began to show its' limits.

 

[timpete]

Thanks - so is the fiberglass tape work for fixing the top of the bulkhead to the cabin ceiling? I believe I saw in a post on this forum that Oday 222s have no tabbing and the bulkheads are just through-bolted to the settees so I think the work at the bottom is easy.

EDIT actually looking back at my pictures it looks like the liner just goes through uninterrupted so it must be just pressed up to the ceiling, no fixing of it. So I guess my question is there anything else that fixes the bulkhead in aside from it's shape and the bolts on the settee?

(Boat is in a barn under a tarp an hour away right now so trying to get as much prior information as I can before spring so the job goes quickly.)

 

[Project_Mayhem]

Thanks - so is the fiberglass tape work for fixing the top of the bulkhead to the cabin ceiling? I believe I saw in a post on this forum that Oday 222s have no tabbing and the bulkheads are just through-bolted to the settees so I think the work at the bottom is easy.

EDIT actually looking back at my pictures it looks like the liner just goes through uninterrupted so it must be just pressed up to the ceiling, no fixing of it. So I guess my question is there anything else that fixes the bulkhead in aside from it's shape and the bolts on the settee? View attachment 229170

(Boat is in a barn under a tarp an hour away right now so trying to get as much prior information as I can before spring so the job goes quickly.)

My O'Day had screws fixing the bulkhead to the settee, cabin roof and fiberglass to the hull. @Timm R Oday25 stated that his only has screws. I believe This was done so that the carpet could be placed on the walls in one piece. It would definitely save on time and materials at the factory

 

[Timm R Oday25]

The bulkheads on our 1981 Oday 25 were indeed only screwed into place . The bulkheads were removed and replaced quite
easily .

 

[timpete]

Okay, yeah, if they're just screwed in on the Oday 222 I really have no excuse not to replace them. Sounds like the job is not much trickier than a plywood jigsaw cut to the old bulkhead template and finish coat and install and reattach trim where needed.