Loos gage for multiple wire sizes

[yelkenli]

Does anyone know if there are wire tension gauges for multiple wire sizes, specifically the C27 shrouds, which are 3/16 and 5/32?

I see the 90 Model B but this will not measure the 5/32 from what I can see.

I don't see any other manufacturers in the same price range.

I suppose I can do that by feel. I hate to buy two gauges.

 

[dlochner]

Loos gauges are the standard. I assume the smaller wire is for the lowers. Tension there is a little less critical condition than on the uppers.

Feel would work if you have finely tuned thumb. I think I would try to extrapolate the readings from the larger wires to the smaller wire.

For example, if 100 lbs of tension on the 5/32 wire is 25 on the gauge and 30 for the 7/32 wire, then that would be a 20% increase. Assuming a straight line relationship (which it really isn't) 100 lbs on 3/16 wire would be 20 on the gauge.

Bear in mind, I just made those numbers up because they are easy to work with and I have no idea if they have any relationship to reality. Note also, the relationship between wire strength of different dimension is not linear and not based on diameter, rather strength is based on the cross section area of the wire. For the level of precision needed for tuning the mast and the small difference between the 2 wire sizes, it is safe to use diameter.

 

[Tally Ho]

There are several scales on the PT1 and PT2 gauges. You just need to get the one that works for your boat…unfortunately, it looks like you would need both…

I think once you gauge one and get a feel for the tension, you could do the other ones by feel.

Greg

 

[Rich Stidger]

Maybe you can borrow one or both gauges from someone here, and pay the shipping both ways. I have one gauge, but I'd have to see which one it is.

 

[mermike]

The gauges are sized such that every boat requires at least two models to tension the rig.

 

[Dalliance]

The gauges are sized such that every boat requires at least two models to tension the rig.

I lucked out. The PT-2 handle both my 1/4” upper & lower shrouds and the 3/16” split backstay. Having to buy two would irritate me.

 

[Joe]

Does anyone know if there are wire tension gauges for multiple wire sizes, specifically the C27 shrouds, which are 3/16 and 5/32?

I see the 90 Model B but this will not measure the 5/32 from what I can see.

I don't see any other manufacturers in the same price range.

I suppose I can do that by feel. I hate to buy two gauges.

Unless you have reason to disengage your rigging on a regular basis, such as trailering your boat.... I find minimal compelling reason for buying one gauge, much less two. But hey, if it means you'll sleep better, go for it. Anyway, after voicing my unwanted opinion, I'd be inclined to purchase the gauge for the larger wire, since you'll be able to use it for that 40 footer in your future. Then if you must have one for the 5/32, Here's one for the smaller wires for less than $50.

 

[LakeOntario270]

I have 2 gauges, no big deal.

 

[dLj]

You can always use the yard stick method - it is very accurate, just not as handy as a Loos gauge.

dj

p.s. In an earlier thread, someone pointed me to that method and I thought it couldn't be right - while they promised to send me a more technical answer - that never arrived. However, I have done a fair bit of research on it subsequently and it is indeed an excellent method.

 

[SteveHughessails]

Unless you have reason to disengage your rigging on a regular basis, such as trailering your boat.... I find minimal compelling reason for buying one gauge, much less two. But hey, if it means you'll sleep better, go for it. Anyway, after voicing my unwanted opinion, I'd be inclined to purchase the gauge for the larger wire, since you'll be able to use it for that 40 footer in your future. Then if you must have one for the 5/32, Here's one for the smaller wires for less than $50.

I will be buying one for my vessel. I do drop my rigging regularly as I am a trailer sailer but most importantly, this vessel is new to me, I want to tune it and know I’m good for awhile. Owning one will allow me an annual or semi annual testing. I also have a B&R rig so it’s a little more involved.

Thanks for the link. I will be checking that site out

 

[thinwater]

You can always use the yard stick method - it is very accurate, just not as handy as a Loos gauge.

dj

p.s. In an earlier thread, someone pointed me to that method and I thought it couldn't be right - while they promised to send me a more technical answer - that never arrived. However, I have done a fair bit of research on it subsequently and it is indeed an excellent method.

In a similar vein, you can pull a wire sideways a fraction with a fish scale and do some very simple math. The same as the gauges, but without the package. I do like the gauges, though. Easier, less thought.

 

[Justin_NSA]

I have 2 gauges, no big deal.

Same here. Won't break the bank!

 

[NYSail]

The gauges are sized such that every boat requires at least two models to tension the rig.

Fortunately I didn’t/don’t have that issue.

 

[jssailem]

I asked my rigger, "Why don't you use a loos gauge to test the rigging?"

He said, "In my experience the accuracy is marginal. If you were racing the boat in might provide a smidgen of difference, but not more than I can feel when I grip and release the shrouds."

When we reinstalled the mast after a refit, he used a gauge to get a rough number indicating the shrouds were about equally tensioned. Then we let the rig sit for a couple of days. Next we went for a sail in 10 knot winds to see how the rig looked and felt. On both tacks he would grab the windward/leeward shrouds feeling the tension, examining the sails and observing the mast. He marked the turnbuckles once the rig felt good. It was an experience well worth the investment in his time. I learned volumes.

Since then I have followed his guidance and developed a feel for the condition of the rigging.

The guidance suggests that accuracy is not critical to achieve a responsive sail boat rig configuration. His feel of the rig and the sailing efficiency we sought was met by the precision he could feel of the rig and the performance we could observe while sailing.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I've owned Catalina sailboats since 1983 (C22 1983-87; C25 1987-1998; C34 1998 to present). Every single Catalina owners manual has a rigging section that carefully explains how to properly tension your rig without a gauge [these are for their masthead rigged boats, I do not know if they have done so for the 15/16 rigs, as Gerry Douglas calls his fractional rigged boats like the C350, etc.].

Essentially it is much like John described. It works.

 

[dLj]

I asked my rigger, "Why don't you use a loos gauge to test the rigging?"

He said, "In my experience the accuracy is marginal. If you were racing the boat in might provide a smidgen of difference, but not more than I can feel when I grip and release the shrouds."

Before I left on my trans-Atlantic crossing, I had a professional rigger inspect my rigging, and tune my rig as I felt it was an area I had insufficient knowledge. It was done in much the same way as you describe. I also asked that same question of the rigger and received the same answer.

I then almost lost my rig in the middle of the Atlantic running down the edge of a major hurricane.

Why? Fundamentally because the rig was not tensioned properly.

I ended up having one of the best riggers in Europe inspect and correct my rig and they used a Loos gauge. Given the size of my rigging, it's really hard to "feel" the correct tension.

I think on a smaller boat, this "feel it" may well work, but once your rigging gets over some size - not sure what that would be - I think you have to use some method of measuring the tension.

When you go take your boat out for a test sail and then "feel the rigging" - are you really testing for all wind conditions? I don't think so.

If you aren't doing a major trip, and you have the luxury of time and multiple sailing trips under various wind conditions, then the "feel the rigging" option will work fine. But if you are heading out and want to know if the rig is right from the get go - use some form of measurement technique - be it a Loos Gauge or the yard stick method or another method that gives some form of measurable output. Get it right the first time.

dj

 

[shemandr]

To be able to tune by feel you need a lot of experience. A rigger could acquire that skill. Most of us probably don't have that ability. A gage gives some objectivity to the process.
And given dLj's experience, not all riggers have that level of skill.

 

[dlochner]

Last I heard, humans didn't come with calibrated tension scales built into their hands.

The Loos gauge delivers repeatable readings for rig tension and they are probably pretty close to the actual tension if were measured by a high quality highly accurate tension gauge, like those load cells the Open 60s and other big boats use.

Once the rig is tuned the way you like it, however you want to tune it, measure the gauge reading and record it. Then you have a number unique to your boat. Whenever you want to check the tension get out the gauge. Resteping the mast in the spring, tune it to your established gauge settings and go sail. Odds are the rig will need little to no extra tuning while heeled over trying to keep the tools onboard along with the rigger.

When Second Star gets her annual tuning, I start with setting the tension at about 10% of the wire's breaking strength. When I go sailing it is almost always the right the first time, and if not, it only off by a half turn or two.

 

[danstanford]

I have 2 sizes of wire and all the tuning guides are set to use the Loos PT-2 gauge only.