How to chart a course across Lake Ontario

[Joe]

Piloting and dead reckoning are two different things. Piloting uses navigational aids to create and follow a route, or to simply determine one's location. Navigational aids are detectable object that has a known location. They can be natural geographical features such as mountains, man made objects such as tall buildings, radio towers, ferris wheels.. just about anything. They can be visual, auditory or electronic objects specifically installed to assist the mariner in safely negotiating a route. Bouys, markers, towers, lighthouses

Dead reckoning, on the other hand, is the art of navigating without fixed navigational aids. To successfully practice DR, one needs to know the start point, the boat's compass course and it's speed, noted at regular timed intervals in a log book. The log should also show estimated current and leeway. At specific times, the data is used to calculate the new position based on the last DR waypoint. Any mis interpretation of a log data will lead to errors in estimated position, so it's important that a reliable fix be added when possible to allow for the DR course to be corrected. Before modern electronics and radio, navigators used sextants to determine latitude and chronometers to help figure longitude.

The point of this short discussion is to make you aware of the tools you need to DR. You need the compass, of course, but you need a way to measure boat speed, and you need a time piece(I used my phone's alarm feature) and a note book. You should also have some tools, such as dividers and any of the many plotting devices available...... and of course you need a chart. Finally, a large clip board is handy so you can do everything in the cockpit.

My recommendation is to start out piloting. Here, you are not concerned about monitoring boat speed or course to determine location, but using various straight line sights to triangulate your position. Although 2 fixes is possible, 3 or more are recommended. You will never get the lines to coincide at one exact point, you're human and the boat is moving.... it's impossible. The lines of sight will meet to a small triangle... your location is in that area. Piloting is a lot of fun and will help you develop the skills you need to eventually become good at DR. Okay... thats it... have fun.

 

[jssailem]

Spot on Joe.
The only addition I have used to your tool set is my depth sounder and a chart showing charted soundings.

 

[Foswick]

[...] As a new sailor on a Siren 17, you may be better served to focus on developing sailing techniques, weather assessment/judgment, and seamanship skills - and eschew the old-fashioned methods of paper charts and magnetic compass. [...] However, paper charts are going away (whether the luddites like it or not) and it makes good sense to use better technology so you can focus on other important things.

We don't know that the poster is not already working on those skills. It is not only possible to learn sailing while learning analog navigation, some would argue that it is preferable. (Arguably, it is better to learn to do it the hard way first, then enjoy the benefits of technology that makes it easier, so you do not find yourself a relatively inexperienced sailor AND dependent on an electronic device.) I'm not sure we know enough to know what the poster finds important to be able to advice them what it is important to focus on. For some, using traditional methods IS the very point.

I would argue that, if you sail at all, this is true to some degree.

Embracing paper charts does not make one a luddite. I, for example, have made a living in technology that most people haven't even heard of yet. My boat has chart plotters, radar, autopilot, etc. I don't reject technology, at all. But, I definitely feel that it is important to maintain analog skills and tools - not only as a backup, but also to understand what those electronic gadgets are doing under the hood. True, most casual sailors absolutely do not need these skills. GPS is reliable (but not infallible). And, for most, a GPS failure wouldn't be a big deal because they don't stray far enough from familiar areas to matter.

But, some of us spend time off the beaten path where we definitely do not want to have an electronic device or two to be the only way to know where we are. And, some people just enjoy doing things the old way because the are the old way.

 

[Foswick]

Piloting and dead reckoning are two different things.

I hope this isn't too pedantic, but I wanted to clarify. Piloting and "pilotage" are two different things. Piloting is knowing your position or course using any method. Pilotage is specifically using using fixed landmarks. I think Joe was referring to pilotage. It all falls under the general heading "piloting".

It is possible that, in some circles, the term "piloting" is used in place of "pilotage", and I am just not aware of that usage.

That doesn't invalidate anything Joe said, which was all good info.

 

[capta]

Are you trying to sail "under the radar" or do you just wish to take a pleasure cruise? Quite a bit different in the planning stages, though the execution may not be all that different.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

They are a safety tool when electrical systems go on the fritz.

Maybe. For most boaters I would debate that.

 

[jssailem]

Maybe. For most boaters I would debate that.

I can agree Larry. When an individual does not know or understand the use of a tool, then it will not function as a safety tool. When the electrical system fails they are left without an analog backup. It is then that Darwin theory surfaces.

 

[Joe]

I hope this isn't too pedantic, but I wanted to clarify. Piloting and "pilotage" are two different things. Piloting is knowing your position or course using any method. Pilotage is specifically using using fixed landmarks. I think Joe was referring to pilotage. It all falls under the general heading "piloting".

It is possible that, in some circles, the term "piloting" is used in place of "pilotage", and I am just not aware of that usage.

That doesn't invalidate anything Joe said, which was all good info.

Well, I guess I've learned something after 45 years of sailing, because I've never heard that term used. This is the dictionary term I've always referred to? re: dictionary.com Piloting ..........noun. the navigational handling of a ship near land using buoys, soundings, landmarks, etc, or the finding of a ship's position by such means.
re: dictionary.com Pilotage is the act of navigating a ship or boat. It involves the skills and knowledge needed to steer a vessel safely through waterways and harbors. Miriam-Webster's definition.....
pilotage
noun
pi·lot·age ˈpī-lə-tij

1
: the action or business of piloting

2
: the compensation paid to a licensed ship's pilot

My impression is Pilotage refers more to the activity of piloting, but could include other forms of navigation such as celestial nav or dead reckoning. i.e. guiding the boat or plane. So...... in essence, I think you have it backwards... "pilotage" is somewhat general while "piloting" is specific. Anyway, I like my definition. So I'll stick with it, if it's okay with you;

 

[Foswick]

Yeah, I definitely didn't mean to offend or even correct. I am definitely not trying to prescribe how any talks. I have just heard experts, more than once, clarify these two terms.

Granted, I believe every time I have heard the distinction made, it has been in the context of aviation. The distinction is clear, there where "piloting" is clearly the general activity of getting from point A to point B and it is beneficial to have this distinct from a term referring specifically to a method of visual navigation ("pilotage"). But, around here, folks say "pilotage" in that same sense in a nautical context, and no one says "piloting" except sometimes to describe things like moving cargo ships around, i.e. they "pilot" such a boat into a port.

I will say that general-use dictionaries are not good references for terms that have meanings specific to a domain. Dictionaries are an attempt to be descriptive. The authors (who are not usually marine experts) attempt to describe how they have observed a word used. Contrary to how most people view them, they do not prescribe the definition itself.

(Understand that my degrees and a good deal of my background is in linguistics. So, I pay way more attention to this sort of thing than well-adjusted people do. Using "piloting" rather than "pilotage" will not likely ever result in a misunderstanding, run ships aground, nor summon sea serpents.)

 

[dLj]

Using "piloting" rather than "pilotage" will not likely ever result in a misunderstanding, run ships aground, nor summon sea serpents.)

Oh how sad - I was really hoping to find a good way to summon sea serpents! You've dashed my hopes...

dj

 

[dlochner]

(Understand that my degrees and a good deal of my background is in linguistics. So, I pay way more attention to this sort of thing than well-adjusted people do. Using "piloting" rather than "pilotage" will not likely ever result in a misunderstanding, run ships aground, nor summon sea serpents.)

Well, I'm not so sure about sea serpents...

When discussing language it is important to know that language is dynamic and meanings change over time and formerly unacceptable language becomes acceptable. A few quick examples, irregardless: When I was in HS this "word" was totally unacceptable because it was a meaningless word. Empathetic: When I was in grad school this was not a word, one was empathic but not empathetic, now one can be empathetic and also sympathetic. Dismal: As in the Dismal Swamp and Dismal Swamp Canal, back when Washington was surveying for the canal, Dismal meant swamp, now 250 years later it has an entirely different meaning, and the Dismal Swamp means Swamp Swamp.

 

[Tally Ho]

Just point the bow in the direction of land, and set sail!

Binoculars, a compass, a map and gps on your phone will get you across the 26 miles.

Greg

 

[dlochner]

The first time I crossed Lake Ontario, about 50 miles, I had a boom box, a bulkhead compass, and a chart. Truly minimalist. Of course back in those day RDF was a high tech electronic navigation instrument.

 

[dLj]

Ya'll should watch the video Gary posted earlier in another thread - really cool video!

Can someone tell me the make and model of this day sailer by picture?

Considering buying but would like more info and the owner says the do not know what make / model it is.

forums.sailboatowners.com

dj

 

[Joe]

Yeah, I definitely didn't mean to offend or even correct. I am definitely not trying to prescribe how any talks. I have just heard experts, more than once, clarify these two terms.

Granted, I believe every time I have heard the distinction made, it has been in the context of aviation.

Then why would you even bring it up on this sailing group? You're right, pedantic is a perfect description.

(Understand that my degrees and a good deal of my background is in linguistics. So, I pay way more attention to this sort of thing than well-adjusted people do. Using "piloting" rather than "pilotage" will not likely ever result in a misunderstanding, run ships aground, nor summon sea serpents.)

No it never will, not around here anyway. We San Diegans aren't that smart. Remember we're the city that let the Chargers go to L.A. because ......well, because. No, you say pilotage around here and people will shake their heads as they roll their eyes, probably mistake you for J.D. Vance. My only point in this thread was to give people some insight on what dead reckoning is, those folks fell asleep long ago. Take care.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

My only point in this thread was to give people some insight on what dead reckoning is, those folks fell asleep long ago.

Actually, since we’re being pedantic, it’s ded reckoning (not dead). Ded is short for deductive. Dead is what could happen when you screw up ded.

 

[Foswick]

Actually, since we’re being pedantic, it’s ded reckoning (not dead). Ded is short for deductive. Dead is what could happen when you screw up ded.

I recently read something about this as an example of folk etymology. I can't find the paper I read, but this covers the gist of it: Is “dead reckoning” short for “deduced reckoning”? The key point being that "dead reckoning" has been around since the 1600s, but no one talks about "ded reckoning" until the 20th century, and then in the context of presenting a theory as to the origin of "dead reckoning".

Again ... entirely irrelevant as to what compass heading to sail across Lake Ontario, but interesting nevertheless.

 

[dlochner]

Again ... entirely irrelevant as to what compass heading to sail across Lake Ontario, but interesting nevertheless.

Easy.

From Canada to the US sail south. From the US to Canada sail north.

 

[shaant01]

You’ve received some good advice and feedback above. I think taking the Power Squadrons course will serve you well and answer your questions.
As a new sailor on a Siren 17, you may be better served to focus on developing sailing techniques, weather assessment/judgment, and seamanship skills - and eschew the old-fashioned methods of paper charts and magnetic compass. You don’t have the nav-table space to properly manage and use paper charts while you sail (especially if conditions are sporty) and your small boat moves with quick motions making it an unstable platform to try to get accurate compass/bearing readings. I recommend you master and use a chart plotting app (e.g. Navionics or Aqua Maps) as opposed to manually plotting courses. The Power Squadrons course will teach you how to do the manual calculations that underly the apps, and that will help you as well. However, paper charts are going away (whether the luddites like it or not) and it makes good sense to use better technology so you can focus on other important things.

I use Navionics to make sure that I have not fallen off course too much. I live in Canada, so I can't sail for seven months and I thought I would learn some navigation in the meantime. Thanks for the advice! I will look into that course.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

I use Navionics to make sure that I have not fallen off course too much. I live in Canada, so I can't sail for seven months and I thought I would learn some navigation in the meantime. Thanks for the advice! I will look into that course.

The Power Squadrons is a US organization. There might be a Canadian equivalent