Tips for replacing joker valve and dealing with calcium build up

[servechilled]

I just did a full rebuild of my Raritan PHII. Messing, time-comsuming business.
Three questions here.
1) After the joker valve, the discharge pipe climbs 3 feet before dumping into the holding tank. I flushed the system with a ton of water to prevent a bigger mess. But since the discharge pipe with joker valve is on the floor, there is no way to get a bucket under it to catch the 3 feet of waste in the tube. I bled it out little by little with a shallow cut out plastic bottle. It took forever. Any tricks?
2) I've read that CLR can dissolve the calcium build-up. Do I just flush enough down the toilet to fill up the 3 foot discharge tube and let it sit?
3) Please share your calcium build-up prevention tips.
Thank you.

 

[justsomeguy]

Any tricks?

Doesn't flushing in dry mode help clear the pipe?

 

[capta]

You didn't mention how much calcium build up you have in your hose.
When I was changing out all the hoses exiting the head going to the Y, and from there to either the holding tank or overboard, I did a test of every method for dissolving the build up, and had virtually no luck at all. My build up had cut in ID to about half, so it was easy to get chunks to do the tests with. Perhaps, over a year or two sitting in one chemical or another would dissolve the build up. As our head overboard discharge was under the stern the hose was around 15 feet. Even after spending a day or so trying to clean them, I found that any low point, like between a couple of frames, was much more clogged and just too much work. It was more efficient to replace the hoses than clean out the old ones, even though the hose itself was in good shape.

 

[SoSound]

The last time that I replaced my Jabsco joker valve, I removed the top of the hand pump and then used a pump from a shampoo bottle to empty all of the remaining (clean) water from the cylinder. Something like a turkey baster/bulb pump would work just as well. I happened to have a Costco sized bottle pump laying around. It made a HUGE difference in keeping the work area clean and dry.

 

[servechilled]

Doesn't flushing in dry mode help clear the pipe?

It doesn't, or at least didn't. Now with a calcium-free joker valve it might. But it's a hand-pump, and each stroke probably only pushes about 6 in of air into the tube (once the bowl is empty), so I'm not sure how it could. But I'm also new to all this, so I may not know what I'm talking about.

 

[servechilled]

You didn't mention how much calcium build up you have in your house.

I would say everything had from 1-4 mm of Ca build-up. There may be more up the discharge tube.

 

[servechilled]

The last time that I replaced my Jabsco joker valve, I removed the top of the hand pump

Nice suggestion. I can see how that would cut down on mess. Unfortunately the Raritan has a different pump configuration that doesn't allow you to do that (that I can tell). And the thing I found most difficult was dealing with everything past the joker valve that hadn't made it into the holding tank yet. Not very clean stuff.

 

[SoSound]

Argh! Can’t remove the top? It really helped. I did the same as you, pumped clean water through before taking the base of the pump apart. Since the joker valve wasn’t sealing anyway, everything left in the hose seeped back into the base and I was able to empty it, it was nearly dry when I took it apart.

 

[dlochner]

There isn't a way of fully clearing the pump, old towels in the work area helps.

The calcium build up will dissolve in acid. Routine treatment with ordinary white vinegar helps to keep the buildup down.

CLR will probably work. Agricultural vinegar (30% acetic acid) will likely work. There is a product, Sew Clean that will work.

https://defender.com/assets/pdf/trac-ecological/751628_tds_sew_clean.pdf

 

[capta]

I would say everything had from 1-4 mm of Ca build-up. There may be more up the discharge tube.

I forgot to mention that the calcium buildup in the PHII chips off the plastic fairly easily.

 

[servechilled]

I forgot to mention that the calcium buildup in the PHII chips off the plastic fairly easily.

Yes, it wasn't too hard to clean that off.

 

[servechilled]

Argh! Can’t remove the top? It really helped. I did the same as you, pumped clean water through before taking the base of the pump apart. Since the joker valve wasn’t sealing anyway, everything left in the hose seeped back into the base and I was able to empty it, it was nearly dry when I took it apart.

Actually, upon re-examining the PHII pump, I could have taken the top portion off and emptied the fresh/salt water rinse side of it all. But the plunger can't be removed without removing the whole pump, so getting at the discharge side is still impossible.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Ye gods and little fishes!!!! Y'all are turning the easiet job on a boat into a totally unnecessary nightmare! The joker valve in any toilet is inside the discharge line...so removing the discharge line from the pump-AFTER you've flushed plenty of clean fresh water through it (use a beer cup from the sink)--is all you need to do to replace it. The flange on on the joker valve is the gasket that seals it to the pump. Be careful not to OVERtighten the screws when you put the hose back onto the pump...overtightening will cause the hose to pucker around the screws which will create leaks. So start with hand tight...flush the toilet to check for leaking. Tighten only a quarter turn more, flush again to check for leaking...repeat till no more leaking. If you have a manual toilet, it's important to replace the joker valve at least annually...Find my article "Joker Valve 101" in the files to learn the reason why. That article (along with a lot more useful information) is also in my book (see link in my signature below...just click on the title (my publisher's idea) which is a bit misleading because although it does cover all the sources of odor on a boat and how to cure--better yet,PREVENT 'em...it's actually a complete "marine sanitation systems 101" manual that includes US marine sanitation regs, holding tank management and maintenance (yes, holding tanks do actually need a bit of maintenance), all the most common equipment etc.

A cupful--no more than 2--of distilled white vinegar flushed all the way through to the holding tank and/or direct overboard thruhull weekly or at the end of a cruise if you're not on the boat every weekend will prevent mineral buildup on the joker valve and in the hoses. DO NOT leave vinegar sitting in the bowl...it will cause soft rubber (your joker valve) to distort and pucker. A 12-15% dilute of muriatic acid--available from any decent hardware store--flushed all the way through the system will remove sea water mineral buildup in the hoses and on the joker valve...Rinse with clean FRESH water after 45-60 minutes. A serious buildup may require a repeat.

WHEW!
--Peggie

 

[servechilled]

Thanks Peggie, lots of great info.
I'm still curious about the fact that after the joker valve, there are 3 vertical feet of waste water (leading to the tank). To replace the joker valve means that waste is coming back down the tube. If I had room under the pipe I'd just put a bucket there and be done with it (after flushing with clean water, of course). But the discharge pipe where the joker valve is is practically flush with the floor. Am I missing something here?

 

[dlochner]

If you pump long enough the fluid will go up the hose and then down to the tank. There may be a little residual fluid, a few ounces perhaps. If you get more, you didn't pump long enough. I pump my head at least 10 times before stopping.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I'm still curious about the fact that after the joker valve, there are 3 vertical feet of waste , it's necessary to move bowl contents 3 vertical feet to get them into tank.water (leading to the tank).

Learn to use th dry mode to do more than just empty the bowl. Any toilet that's working to specs can lift bowl contents up to 4' and up to 6 linear feet even in the dry mode. To avoid filling up the tank with flush water, use the dry mode and flush long enough to move the bowl contents all the way into the tank.
This makes it important to keep the toilet very well lubricated.
I'm curious to know why ,it's necessary to move bowl contents 3 vertical feet to get them into tank. unless you installed the entire tank completely above waterline to be able to empty it via gravity at sea.

--Peggie

 

[servechilled]

Thanks y'all, I'll give it a try.
Whoever installed the tank did in fact put it above waterline, and the discharge pipe from the joker valve goes all the way to the top of it and empties into it from above. So it's at least 3 feet vertical from the joker valve, probably closer to 4. Perhaps, continued pumping in dry mode would empty that pipe. My experience was that I ended with about 3-4 cups of waste water (that I bled out slowly into a shallow tray and emptied the tray repeatedly). I'd guess that was about half the tube. I pumped in dry mode a bunch, but perhaps not enough. I just assumed it was inevitable because with a tube that wide (1.5 in?), water would come down the sides of an air bolus going upward. I imagine with a shorter or narrower pipe it would work more easily. But I'll be curious to try it out next time I change the joker valve. I'll let you know in a year!