Moving from Ranger 12 to ??

[newranger]

After taking a bunch of sailing lessons in the SLC area, last year I bought a little Ranger 12 dinghy (Ranger 12'). I fixed it up a bit and took it out a few times on the local reservoir where it sailed fine. My original goals for this boat were:

1. Easily trailerable, easy to set up and sail single handed
2. Big enough for my kids and wife to join me
3. Small enough for my kids (who are also learning to sail) to take turns helping out
4. Small enough where I could launch it onto a beach for camping
5. Row-able in case I get into trouble

I learned a few things:

1. A 12' fiberglass dinghy is really too small for more than one passenger
2. Most importantly, when this boat capsizes (which I luckily did intentionally within swimming distance to the dock), it can't be reasonably bailed from the water. When full, it sits way too low in the water. I had to swim/pull it back to the dock and even then it took like 45min. I started adding floatation but it just wasn't going that well and was filling the boat up in ugly ways.
3. My dream of sailing on mountain lakes is a total fantasy. My couple attempts were comical as my novice-self struggled with swirling winds.

Feeling like if I capsized in the middle of a bigger lake I'd be in big trouble with little kids really put me off. So... I'm looking for a new boat with some new parameters:

1. I still want it to be easily trailerable and launch-able with my medium sized SUV, but I no longer feel like I need to be able to lift it with one other person onto a beach and back onto my trailer. I'll stick to the established sailing lakes in the area with real boat launches.
2. Bigger, big enough for my wife and two young kids (8 and 10)
3. Very safe when capsized, easy to right, and easy to bail
4. Large and active community I can learn from, find parts, etc
5. Suitable for sailing on the Great Salt Lake, camping on beaches on Antelope Island
6. Easy to sail. I'm still learning.

The boat my kid's coach recommended is a Flying Scott with a little outboard. These seem very popular and well loved, and I think they meet my parameters, so I'm thinking I can't go too wrong. Anyone disagree with that? The problem is there aren't any in my area and I feel nervous buying a used boat long-distance so I'm trying to expand my options.

In particular I'm wondering about a Thistle. I especially love the aesthetics of some of the old wooden ones I've come across. Would a Thistle, or wooden one in particular, be hard to right if capsized (but not turtled)? Violate any of my new parameters in any big way?

Are there any other classes of boats I should be considering? Or is the Flying Scott really the right answer and I should keep looking??

Generally I've only been looking at boats with a centerboard vs a keel because it seems like even smaller keelboats aren't easily trailerable/launch-able. Is that true or should I give keelboats a closer look? For example would a boat like this be completely nuts given my parameters? https://www.boattrader.com/boat/1931-sparkman-stephens-manhasset-bay-one-design-9266457/

Thanks in advance for any advice!

 

[Sanfelice]

Not sure what a medium size SUV tows but a Thistle is more of a hot rod and a Flying Scott can capsize but is a very stable craft. Based upon what was in your post I would suggest a something along the line of a Victoria 18 or a Compac 16. If your car can tow it a Cape Dory 19. All of which are ballasted. Others no doubt will have other suggestions. Hopefully you will find something that meets your needs.

 

[newranger]

Not sure what a medium size SUV tows but a Thistle is more of a hot rod and a Flying Scott can capsize but is a very stable craft. Based upon what was in your post I would suggest a something along the line of a Victoria 18 or a Compac 16. If your car can tow it a Cape Dory 19. All of which are ballasted. Others no doubt will have other suggestions. Hopefully you will find something that meets your needs.

Those ballasted boats all look like they can't be launched from a ramp, can they? When I'm thinking of trailerable, I'm thinking I set up the mast in the parking lot, back my car up to the ramp, and am sailing 5 min later.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

I set up the mast in the parking lot, back my car up to the ramp, and am sailing 5 min later.

More like an hour later unless you make some upgrades. Something in the 19' range is a good place to start. I had a Starwind 19 that sailed well and had a fantastic interior layout. A couple could sleep in the bow without being crowded and a full size adult could sleep on each side of the cabin further aft. It was a lightweight boat at 1350lbs. Add in trailer and boat gear, you're sitting around 2000lbs total. A 36lbs trolling motor was able to push it for lakes that didnt allow outboards.

 

[JBP-PA]

There are a lot of 15-16 ft boats that would fit your goals, many by small manufacturers. A few became widely popular like the Thistle and Lightning. There is also the Catalina Capri, the Snipe, Hunter 17 etc. but there are a lot more. SailboatData had over 500 of them listed.

SailboatData.com | Top Sailboat Database Information Resource

SailboatData.com contains information on over 8900 production and semi-production sailboats dating back to the late 1800’s.

sailboatdata.com

You can find them on Craigslist, Facebook, and the usual places for local sellers.
While you can't lift a 15 ft boat onto your trailer, you can drag it up a beach and winch it up onto your trailer. I used to do this all the time with my Islands 15 on small lakes that didn't have proper launch ramps or on big lakes because the launch ramps were too busy and you had to wait in line. Obviously this won't work with any sort of fixed keel.

A beamy 15 can hold up to 6 adults yet can be easily launched & sailed single handed.

There are 3 types of "cabin" to choose from. 1) No cabin. On sport boats there may be no cabin at all. Maybe there is a place in the bow to stuff things like on the snipe. 2) Storage cabin. An enclosed cabin that is to small to sleep in, but dry enough to store things, perhaps a tent, sleeping bags, etc. 3) A cuddy cabin like the Compac 16 that actually has beds you could sleep in.

You are right that the larger boats and ballasted boats will require more time to launch, but you can certainly launch some of the 15ft boats in 15 minutes. Choose one that does not require any gin pole nor block and tackle to raise the mast. On many 15 ft boats you can easily lift the mast by hand.

I think the typical mid sized SUV could tow maybe 2000 lbs? Plenty for a 15ft boat that will come in well under 1000 lbs. A Catalina 16.5 is only 430 lbs. Plus a trailer, no problem. I towed mine behind a Ford Escort for a while. My Escape did it no problem.

If you have kids, look for boats that have inboard seats. A lot of boats you sit on the gunwale which makes parents nervous. A beamy 15 is also very difficult to capsize accidentally (within reason).

A boat with a double hull is nice because it should be self bailing. It won't fill up with rain and if you do capsize, you can just wait (but not with you in the boat, time for a swim. )

 

[JRT]

I highly recommend me more lessons and solid understanding of dumping power a d avoid any capsize.

The Rhodes are pretty sweet for a reason, I've considered going to one for easier sailing vs my 310. There are also some pretty awesome cat boats too,which while not perfect are pretty easy and family fun.

 

[dlochner]

The Flying Scot is a good choice for family sailing. It can easily hold a couple of adults and a couple of kids. It is easy to rig and easy to sail. In the right conditions it can get up on a plane. Generally it is a very stable boat and easily managed. It has a large mainsail and small jib, tacking is easy. The basic rig is very simple, only 3 strings to pull, the main sheet, jib sheet, and the vang. Other classes like the Lightning can have many more strings to pull. The Thistle is also designed by Sandy Douglas and is sort of a high performance Scot. However, the Thistle is not necessarily a very comfortable boat to sail on.

All centerboard dinghy style boats can capsize, if the Scot is set up according to the class rules it can be sailed out of a capsize after the boat is righted. It needs to have a large inflatable bag under the foredeck and it needs the large (6" diameter) bailing port in the transom. The bow bag will keep the bow above water, the foam under the seats will keep the gunwales out of the water and once the boat starts sailing again water will drain out the port in the transom.

The Flying Scot Association is active with many family oriented events. In addition to the events, members of FSSA will be a great resource for information about the boat. The Scot is still in production making parts and upgrades easily accessible.

Home | Flying Scot Sailing Association

www.fssa.com

Sailing a Daysailing boat that has one of the worlds largest racing classes

The Flying Scot Is The Perfect Daysailer Racer! It's great for sailing with your family. You can sail her with the spinnaker or without, and/or with motor.

flyingscot.com

 

[shemandr]

I sail Flying Scots from the local sailing center. They are stable but the sailing center doesn't send them out in over 15 knots. I don't think you have to bring it in if the breeze pipes up but it's their boat and their rule. The boat can take more breeze and can sail with just a reefed main. It doesn't point that well (At least the ones we sail) so you'll not learn to be a very good upwind driver. However you can reach and close reach comfortably and this is what I do when I take guests out. That way they can drive which makes the sail fun for them. That will be important to your kids and the Mrs. My main complaint about the boats we sail is there isn't a good spot to put things down like a bottle of water, a VHF, a dry bag - and you need a dry bag - or a cooler. I'm sure you could adapt a boat you own to accommodate those needs. You can't beat having a class association and being able to get parts.
But for family fun I would like a cuddy cabin. A kid who's not having fun can retreat to it. You also get dry storage and a place to shelter from brief storms. If you are thinking of picnics or overnights you will need to place stuff.
I like the Cape Dory Typhoon Weekender but I don't know if it's trailerable.

 

[dlochner]

It doesn't point that well (At least the ones we sail)

The Scot benefits from lots of vang, just be certain to release it before tacking or the boom will bend. Old sails also make it hard to point.

 

[shemandr]

I have to admit that I don’t put much vang on. When I see the boom bending I get a little squeamish. I really don’t want to buy a new boom.

 

[dlochner]

I have to admit that I don’t put much vang on. When I see the boom bending I get a little squeamish. I really don’t want to buy a new boom.

A new booml is less than $500.

Flying Scot Sailboat Boom

Get all of your parts for your FS sailboat here, including this new standard flying scot sailboat boom.

flyingscot.com

 

[newranger]

Thanks for all the ideas everyone. My car can tow 6,000 lbs so I think almost any of the options people have mentioned would be fine for weight anyway. I guess I just have to see what comes up locally and jump on it when it does.

 

[leo310]

When I was looking for a light lake sailor that could sleep 4, easy to tow. What I found was the Mac 26d fit the bill. All Mac's are water ballast and very easy to tow the newer models have more headroom than the 26D or S models.

 

[PaulK]

Another reason Shemandr's sailing center might call for the boats to come in at 15 knots (post #8)is that they become more susceptible to capsizing and the staff doesn't want to have to rescue people and boats and have things break.
Thistles are more sporty than Flying Scots and NOT as comfortable. They need to be sailed flat, and when the wind comes up that means hiking on the thin gunwale that digs into your backside unmercifully. Flying Scots have a deck that you can sit on instead.
Not much on Craigslist, but this might be interesting: Hunter 23 wing keel sloop - boats - by owner - marine sale - craigslist

HUNTER 23 - sailboatdata

CB version- Draft BU: 2.0’/.61m Draft BD: 4.9’/1.49m

sailboatdata.com

28" draft is the question you have to answer about ramp launching.

 

[LloydB]

I read post #8 as having said they won't let their rental sailboats go out when wind speed above 15, probably will let them get back in whenever they can make it. Just a speculation on my part.

 

[newranger]

Here is a related question, I'm having a hard time finding boats I want locally around SLC but I'm seeing several interesting boats around the US. What would everyone recommend for how to purchase a boat remotely?

 

[JBP-PA]

You mean how to avoid a trip to look at a boat only to find out it's a dud? For the class of boats you are looking at, a survey would cost more than the boat. If you have a friend in the area, that'd be best. Otherwise you can ask the seller to take some more pictures about anything you are interested in. Also talk to the previous owners. Not everyone is out to scam you, many owners will be quite honest about their boat. We love our boats and like to talk about them. If you can schedule a trip to see several boats, that would make your trips more efficient, and if you can combine it with a family mini vacation, then bonus!

 

[JBP-PA]

I'd bet there are people on this forum that would look at a boat for you.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

Here is a related question, I'm having a hard time finding boats I want locally around SLC but I'm seeing several interesting boats around the US. What would everyone recommend for how to purchase a boat remotely?

For boats more than an hour or two away I would request a Facetime or Zoom call where I direct the owner to point the camera. If I like it, I would likely drive to inspect and pick it up