Evaluating a Beneteau 323 for Purchase - Keel Boat / Matrix Questions

[jbmia]

Question for the Beneteau owners.. I'm evaluating an '05 323 and took a few pics of the bilge/keel bolt/matrix area and was hoping knowledgeable owners could provide some feedback...

In the pic below, it appears there are two different materials here.. the gel coat / liner (lighter) and a paint? (slightly darker).. Is this normal? Original?

Similar here with what appears to be some sort of off white paint.. some on the top of the keel bolt washer.. (upper center, left). is this normal?

Also, there's a circular depression to the left of the keel bolt.. covered with this same material that looks like thick paint... is this typical?

Is this paint like dripping on the lower right normal? It appears there some adhesive/sealant sealing the liner to the hull here.. normal?

More paint like material on top of keel bolt washer.. normal?

Nothing obvious to me here.. just some rust...

Should I be concerned about cracking in the liner around the keel bolt here?

Much appreciation for any feedback on these.. This is my first time closely evaluating one of these Beneteau's and would appreciate input from those experienced with these boats..

Thanks!

jb

 

[Davidasailor26]

I don’t think it came out of the factory looking like that. For comparison, this is the bilge in our 37

I suspect the one you’re looking at was grounded at some point, the hull separated from the liner, and some attempt to at least cover up the repairs was made. Doesn’t look like the neatest job though. It would probably take a detailed survey to make sure there’s not still hidden damage. If it were me I’d probably walk away based on the repairs visible.

 

[JRacer]

Agree. Looks like some repair work done there. Here is what my 1992 First 310 bilge looks like. No paint, all gelcoat.

 

[capta]

It looks to me oily bilge water was left in there for some time, and it stained the paint. Some of those backing plates seem quite a bit smaller than I'd want behind my keel bolts, even if those are factory installed.

 

[SoSound]

My original reaction was that the two colors did not surprise me or seem unusual. I have almost no photos of anything under my floor boards, but I did find a couple from our first boat, a 1990 First 285. I don't have any of our current Oceanis 34, but the bilge/under floor area is all gelcoat and is all one color.

Here are a couple of photos of the inside of the 1990 boat, taken about ten years ago.

In aft cabin near engine, all one glossy color applied on the hull.

Inside big lazarette, two colors.

Looking through lazarette toward transom.

 

[jssailem]

My gosh… It is an 18 year old boat in Florida. I suspect it has been out on the water and perhaps weathered a Florida storm or 3. If a boat owner took it out from the marina, then they have likely run aground. Only boat owner that has never run an aground has likely never left the marina.

The cracking around the keel boat suggest a grounding and perhaps over tightening the keel bolt.
I would look further at the boat for other signs of damage. The two tone paint indicated they did some repairs and likely used the paint to make it look good. Sloppy job but it is a bilge and no one looks for a pristine bilge on an 18 year old boat. Ok perhaps if you are searching for a Unicorn.

Is the boat keeping the water on the outside? If so it has possibilities.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Is the boat keeping the water on the outside? If so it has possibilities.

Possibilities yes, but the construction style of Beneteaus (and some other manufacturers) makes evaluation of those possibilities challenging. Beneteau uses a matrix inside the hull to provide strength and stiffness. If that matrix gets separated from the hull that strength is lost. In the worst case that could compromise the ability of the hull to support the keel. The combination of paint and gelcoat in the pictures suggests something happened to that interface between matrix and hull and something was done about it. Maybe the interface was fully evaluated and repaired, or maybe some paint was just slopped over any cracks and called good. Depending on the amount of separation a full repair can be very time consuming - again in the worst case to the point of totaling the boat. The neatness of the paint in the pictures doesn’t leave me great confidence that all that much time or care was put into these particular repairs.

 

[jbmia]

Thanks for the feedback folks. While I appreciate jssailem's counterpoint, my response would be that these boats go for around +/- $60k (in that year range) and there are enough of these boats floating around not to get stuck w/ a questionable boat. Especially at this price point.

 

[SoSound]

Perhaps you will have the opportunity to compare a couple of them. At least you know one specific thing that you want to look for. FWIW, we knew that the First 285 was what we wanted, and we looked at several (and passed on several) before we found the right one.

 

[BigEasy]

On early (2005) 343 models & perhaps 323 models, Beneteau retrofitted boats with “stiffeners” to beef up fiberglass thickness/strength at keel attachment area, before redesigning a beefier bottom on subsequent hulls. Beneteau coordinated this repair thru dealers and sent factory techs to bond the stiffeners to the Hull while in water. The area of concern could be the aforementioned modification.

 

[jssailem]

these boats go for around +/- $60k (in that year range) and there are enough of these boats floating around not to get stuck w/ a questionable boat. Especially at this price point.

That is important information not supplied in the original query. It provides context to your query.
If you are serious about seeking a boat that may have issues which you can address, yet get it at a discounted price due to your knowledge base, then the boat has possibilities.

A careful survey by a skilled individual my clarify the issues. Has the internal structure been compromised? Was the boat a Hurricane victim and is now being disposed of? Is the 60K boat a 30K boat with repairable DIY projects? Will the projects be less than 30K? Can you get a 60K boat do the projects and have only 40K invested? Or do you want a 60K boat and then just take it out on the water to sail?

 

[jbmia]

That is important information not supplied in the original query. It provides context to your query.
If you are serious about seeking a boat that may have issues which you can address, yet get it at a discounted price due to your knowledge base, then the boat has possibilities.

A careful survey by a skilled individual my clarify the issues. Has the internal structure been compromised? Was the boat a Hurricane victim and is now being disposed of? Is the 60K boat a 30K boat with repairable DIY projects? Will the projects be less than 30K? Can you get a 60K boat do the projects and have only 40K invested? Or do you want a 60K boat and then just take it out on the water to sail?

Thanks jssailem,

Good points above sir. I just assumed that since I'm in a Beneteau owners forum that the year and model would give some context to the price point I'm at. I think that's a fair assumption.

To your point though I didn't specify anything about my appetite to take on a project boat, which I'm not. Not that I couldn't do it... I've done fiberglass work, engine work, solar projects, etc, etc, I'm just not inclined at this point to take on any major boat projects at this point. Full plate over here... So yes, Monty, I'll take what's behind door #3, a 60k boat and then let's just take it out on the water to sail... ;-)

In terms of a survey, sure, I''ll have one completed, but on the right boat. I've been looking for awhile and gotten pretty good at spotting issues and saving survey money along the way. At $1-2k a pop (after haulout ,etc.) , why spend it if you've already spotted issues up front... That said, if I had to have that one Krogen 38 that comes up for sale every 2 years, yes, I'd be more willing to take the approach you've outlined above. But with these Beneteau 323/331/343's etc., I'd rather walk away and invest the survey money on a boat I can't find any problems with. On a side note, this boat had a recent survey, which I have in hand, and the only thing that was called out was the crack in the liner around the keel bolt and labeled as 'superficial'. Maybe it is... Maybe not. Maybe it's the 'stiffener' retrofit mentioned above... Maybe we'll get a 323 owner to chime in?

I must say I do appreciate the all the feedback I've received here. It's invaluable. Much appreciation.

 

[Mechone]

Any Beneteau bought should have its full weight of the boat put on the keel while hanginging in the slings . Closely looking for keel push up. It should not move at all, if it does the matrix has detached or is starting to. It's like a crack in glass it will grow every year until the boat won't support itself. Also inside the floor boards will not be flat they too will warp up. Anyways nothing wrong with a repair if done right, in fact the boat will be 10x stronger with matrix being glassed in ,instead of relying on glue that you cannot see. From pictures the boat looks ok no cracks in the stringers , however do the test