Old bilge: water in keel
- Thread starter xavpil
- Start date
What @capta is referring to:
The concern with a boat that has water inside the keel, is that the structure may be damaged enough that the keel will fail.
Worst case, the keel bolts corrode/fail, and the keel falls off the boat when you are using it. The boat would then immediately capsize. (if your boat as mild steel keel bolts, like some Catalina 27, this is a big risk)
You should have someone who has experience and knowledge inspect that keel, and repair it, or assumming that you have the skill and knowledge to do the job correctly, tell you how to do it yourself. It is not a simple job by any means.
If the water in the keel problem isn't solved, the problem gets worse, and increases the cost of repair in the future. Risk of failure of the mild steel keel bolts, would also increase.
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Check out www.sailboatdata.com website. Do a search on Catalina 27 and you will see details of your boat.
@Tally Ho asked a good question. What material came out when you drilled the holes in the bilge? Wood? Fiberglass? Metal? How deep did you drill? If you drilled in more than an 1" and found no plywood the keel stub repair (see below and/or google it) may have already been done.
Most likely you drilled thru fiberglass and found wood. Catalina used plywood in the keel stub, the part built into the bottom of hull where the lead keel attaches. The problem is bilge water can seep along the bilge bolts and wet the wood causing it to get soft. This allows the keel to sag creating a gap/crack nicknamed the Catalina Smile.
The good news is this does not mean the keel is going to fall off. At least with the Catalina 30, which has the same build issues, there are no reports of keels falling off per the catalina30 association groups forum.
I wouldn't worry about the surveyors report. A trace of water in a 43 year old boat is minor and to be expected. I wouldn't worry about bricks used as a filler. (O'day did this on the 25). So what?
If the bolt heads are sinking into the bottom of the bilge, then at some point you'll need to do the keel stub repair but your surveyor didn't mention it so no hurry to do so.
Dry the bilge, fill the holes with epoxy filler and enjoy your boat.
Edit: I do agree with @Leeward Rail if the keel bolts are in bad condition they should be repaired.
Further, I do not believe a moisture meter can read thru lead so there is no way to know if water is inside the lead keel without drilling it and seeing what comes out.
Moisture could be in the keel stub (fiberglass and wood, no lead). Is that the area the surveyor is talking about?
Also, the lead keels are often faired (made smooth) with filler, then coated with a water proof coating. Sometimes that fails and allows the filler to become saturated.
Consider asking the surveyor for more details about that part of his report and the condition of the keel bolts.
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I should think you'd want to bring in a professional, perhaps another surveyor, who can look directly at your problems and give you some advice. From here we can only guess at what we can see, but not what may be problems that we can not.
Decent source of info, but not without errors. One boat, that I previously owned had it's length listed wrong by 2 feet. Unfortunately others have now propagated that and people think it's correct
I would contact the source. Catalina yachts, and hire a local pro to look at it.
Hard to diag over the internet. Needs to be done in person.
My worry would be that brick holds moisture once the system is compromised. A solid lead keel obviously won't. Moisture or water in a keel, in a boat that experiences sub zero temperatures that will expand when frozen, is a serious problem. We have a boat in our marina that needs serious keel repair due to that exact keel+water+winter situation. Unfortunately the OPs boat is in Milwaukee and we know it has water in the keel.
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the likelihood finding someone at Catalina who would know I either dead or gone. That includes includes Frank Butler and Gerry Douglas. As old the boat is with a problem of the keel,, there may be other hidden problems. Suggest look for another boat
thx
thx so much!Edit: Here's the links to the Sailing Anarchy thread and Catalina 27 Owners thread:
Post #7Catalina 27 Keel
I have a 1981 Catalina 27 with the short keel (3'5"), have found a 1974 with the standard keel cheap. I can do the change myself but want to be sure the sump / keel box is the same size. Anyone done this? Brforums.sailinganarchy.com
Weeping About Weeping Keel
I have a Catalina 27 Mark I with a weeping wing keel. It has a single spot about a foot up from the bottom of the keel, in the middle, that loses a drop of water about once a minute. The prior owner tried to fix it by slapping some fiberglass on it, but the fiberglass isn't well sealed to the...
Shoddy Workmanship Anarchy
Some good stuff in this thread. That coffee cup is going to be hard to top. I think the swim fin tied it. :D
Keel Cross-section??
catalina-27-270-owners-association.groups.io
I agree with all you say except I question if there really is water in the keel. How did the surveyor determine that there is a trace of water in the inside the lead keel? That's my question. Until answered we don't know there is water in the lead keel.
More likely he found moisture in the keel stub. A common problem with C27s and C30s. The surveyor said not enough to warrant repair.
@xavpil tried to prevent alleviate the problem by drilling holes into the bilge, which is another reason I think the surveyor meant keel stub.
I think he should dry the bilge long enough to fill the holes he drilled with epoxy.
If he is really concerned about the issue question the surveyor or have another survey done on the keel, keel stub and keel bolts.
Until he is told by a surveyor that yes, he has water inside the lead keel (which we all agree is not a good thing), how that was determined and what steps he should take to alleviate it, he can file away the discussions about brick inside of lead keels, relax and go sailing.
Thanks for your insight.
THe surveyor found moister in the upper part of the keel, right where the bilge connects with the keel.
The area is one foot “deep”. The other 2‘ of keel are definitelly dry.
HE told me that I wouldn’t be loosing the keel anytime soon, and that, yes, if it was a younger boat I could consider fixing the issue.
Those details completely change the conversation and should have been included in your first post.