DIY of standing rigging with compression fittings

[Avi]

What are the risks of replacing all standing riggings to a compression fittings or swageless , with sta lok or norseman by myself? I watch many people doing it on YouTube with no special difficulties.
I am thinking of doing it myself is there anything in particular I need to pay attention? The money saving is what I need because I am doing a major refit on my S2 9.2C and the expenses are overwhelming. Is Norseman better then Sta lok?
Any advice will be appropriated

 

[garymalmgren]

I have replaced standard fittings with Sta Loc because I was in a location with no swaging facilities.
I also was nervous, but can report that after many many miles there was no problem at all.
My present boat has a Sta Loc on the forestay because of the Plastimo furler and I am not concerned about that.
If you choose to go with swageless, take you time,
Double check that the strands are in the right channels (not crossed over). This is self evident , but check anyway.
And use a vice and bench.
I had to do it on the ground and a vice is MUCH better and safer.
I say "go for it."

As for Norseman VS Sta Loc, I have no experience.
Re; your picture 4. That is NOT GOOD!

gary

 

[Joe]

What are the risks of replacing all standing riggings to a compression fittings or swageless , with sta lok or norseman by myself? I watch many people doing it on YouTube with no special difficulties.
I am thinking of doing it myself is there anything in particular I need to pay attention? The money saving is what I need because I am doing a major refit on my S2 9.2C and the expenses are overwhelming. Is Norseman better then Sta lok?
Any advice will be appropriated

I think you may have some misconceptions about mechanical (or swageless) fittings. First of all, the choices are basically between Hayn and Sta-lok for mechanical fittings since Norseman has closed their shop. Secondly, I think you'll find the Hayn (Hi-Mod) fittings a little more expensive, but their installation require less severe wire crimping and thus are considered longer lasting... but reading the article will explain all that.

The next is the "money saving" where unfortunately, the opposite is true. Mechanical fittings are far more expensive than swaged equivalents. Go to any catalogue and compare. See below. The cost of the fitting and corresponding swage service will be considerably less than purchasing a complete mechanical fitting and installing it yourself. Where you save money is making your own measurements, having the pieces built by rig shop (local if possible), and installing the finished items yourself.
But don't take my word for it. Read this article from "The Rigging Company" (Swageless Mechanical Fittings or Swage Terminals)

Here's typical cost difference from Vela Sailing Supply ... Of course you'll add the swage service fee to each fitting.. usually $10-15... at least it was when I priced new rigging 8 or 9 years ago,

Hayn Marine MS Style Aircraft Eye Hi-Mod Compression Eye 5/32" Wire x 5/16" Pin $61.98
5/32" Wire - 5/16" Pin $12.04 Hayn

I'm a big fan of swageless fittings, but they ain't cheap. However, there are many reasons to go that route... or a combination of both.. (read the article). If I were going cruising I'd have a box of mechanical fittings and wire on board, to make myself self-sufficient. Good Luck.

 

[kloudie1]

Just a word of caution .. be sure to use some kind of anti seize on the threads of the mechanical fitting. We tried to use one to fix a broken backstay and could not get the new fitting apart; heat, breaker bars, impact driver on a crowfoot.. nothing would budge it.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

@Avi re: photo 4. The easiest way to cut wire rope with a clean (unsplayed) edge is with a rotary tool cutoff wheel.

 

[jssailem]

@Joe stated is very clearly.
I concur with his observations.
2016 I removed the mast on my 1974 Cal35C. A complete retrofit/rebuild of the mast.
Priorities defined:

1. Strengthen rigging to improve function of open water cruising.
2. Mitigate by design the potential for corrosion in rigging.
3. Improve running rigging systems to optimize mast base management.
4. Add running rigging options for spinnaker and stay sail.
5. Rewire all electrical systems.

Looking at the standing rigging options, I selected a hybrid model. Machine swaged fittings on the mast and HiMod fittings on the chainplates. This allows for removal and repair of the deck end shrouds/stays should something occur when away from port services. Recut the cable and with a new cone reinstall the HiMod fitting. Then use a bar of steel to extend the connection to the chainplate.

Water siting in the fitting be it swaged or a compression fitting is what contributes to the corrosion and failure of a shroud/stay. On the mast gravity carries the water away from the fitting. At the deck the water pools or sits in the fitting. That has been my observations.

If costs is that primary concern, then swaged fittings are a simple answer. Hand swaged the cheapest, yet also least safe. Better machine swaged. The cost is slightly more, but I believe a major improvement in safety.

It is a good thing to put your rigging in order. Good luck.

 

[Avi]

Thank you all for the reply, I always learn something and get educated from all the feed backs

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I think to summarize the reasons why many sailors choose mechanical fittings are:
1) Mechanical fittings are more of an investment to reduce costs when rigging needs to be replaced in the future. They are considered to be re-usable when you need to purchase new wire. But they are not a more economical choice with the initial purchase.
2) Mechanical fittings are geared towards the DIY sailor who may not have access to swaged fittings in remote areas when the rigging may need replacement.
3) Many DIY sailors have more confidence in measuring and cutting the rigging on their own and doing the job independently. There are some who just do not trust others to do these jobs.

If you don't fit in those categories, I'd suggest that mechanical fittings may not be your best choice.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I'll also suggest that with a major refit, as you describe, the best strategy is to focus on the jobs that you know that you will have to do yourself to save money. Rigging is not one of those jobs. The time you save farming this job to a good rigger will be well worth it. This job will probably be done with less expense (especially if you value your own time properly) if it is done by a rigger with swage machinery. I have no doubt that you can readily find several competent riggers who will offer competitive pricing. The job will be done quickly, and well, without any stress on yourself. If this rigging is 20 years old or older (or you don't even know the age), my advise is to do this job for sure and don't put it off. Peace of mind doesn't come for free, but it is priceless once you have it. So, good for you having this task on the front burner.

 

[jviss]

Good points, @Scott T-Bird . I was thinking of doing my own, having lengths of wire made with swaged fittings at the top, those Navtec-style "T" fittings, and Hi-Mod mechanical fittings at the bottom. In 2017 I costed it out from Rigging Only on Fairhaven, MA (only 10 minutes from where I now live!) at about $2,000. I would have to terminate all of the lower fittings. Now, Hi-Mod terminals have doubled in cost since then!!! I'm thinking I should just have them come to my boat, measure, and fabricate the rigging with swaged fittings at both ends.

Update on costs:
Navtec swaged "T" fittings up 30% from 2017 to now. Wow.

 

[dLj]

I think to summarize the reasons why many sailors choose mechanical fittings are:
1) Mechanical fittings are more of an investment to reduce costs when rigging needs to be replaced in the future. They are considered to be re-usable when you need to purchase new wire. But they are not a more economical choice with the initial purchase.
2) Mechanical fittings are geared towards the DIY sailor who may not have access to swaged fittings in remote areas when the rigging may need replacement.
3) Many DIY sailors have more confidence in measuring and cutting the rigging on their own and doing the job independently. There are some who just do not trust others to do these jobs.

If you don't fit in those categories, I'd suggest that mechanical fittings may not be your best choice.

The main reason in my mind is the higher reliability of these fasteners. These kinds of mechanical fasteners are rated for "overhead" application but swagged fittings are not. To my knowledge there are only two types of fittings rated for overhead use: these mechanical fittings, and poured fittings. Poured fittings used to be used on standing rigging back in the days when galvanized wire rope was used (I am going back a long time here) and they have been historically the most commonly used fitting in elevators, another field where wire rope and fittings are critical. I've not worked in the wire rope world in a couple decades So I don't know the currently used fitting in elevators but they would not be swagged.

Just a FYI.

dj

 

[Scott T-Bird]

The main reason in my mind is the higher reliability of these fasteners. These kinds of mechanical fasteners are rated for "overhead" application but swagged fittings are not.

Not knowing any different, I'll go along with what you say about reliability ... except that I've never heard that the reliability of swaged fittings on sailboats is really a factor worth worrying about for the typical sailor. My premonition is that increased reliability is just a meaningless argument for the DIY sailor to add in the pro column for justification of their choice. Just by sampling some reading, one rigger whom offers both services seems to suggest that mechanical fittings can be harder on the wire than swaged fittings, but defects or damages are more easily spotted with mechanical fittings, so it (how well they perform) may be a wash, depending more upon how well each alternative is actually performed by the rigger.

 

[dLj]

Not knowing any different, I'll go along with what you say about reliability ... except that I've never heard that the reliability of swaged fittings on sailboats is really a factor worth worrying about for the typical sailor. My premonition is that increased reliability is just a meaningless argument for the DIY sailor to add in the pro column for justification of their choice. Just by sampling some reading, one rigger whom offers both services seems to suggest that mechanical fittings can be harder on the wire than swaged fittings, but defects or damages are more easily spotted with mechanical fittings, so it (how well they perform) may be a wash, depending more upon how well each alternative is actually performed by the rigger.

The reliability of swaged fittings is quite good, didn't mean to imply they are not reliable. But they are not rated as well as mechanical fittings. Most of the folk that I know preparing sailboats for expedition type sailing tend to go more with mechanical fittings than swaged fittings. Some will use swaged fittings at the top of the mast and mechanical fittings at the bottom. For most of us, it probably doesn't matter. Swaged fittings work well enough.

Another thing you can do with mechanical fittings is actually inspect them. You can't really inspect inside a swaged fitting. But few of us are worrying about that.

It is not "a wash". You cannot achieve the reliability with a swaged fitting that you can with a mechanical fitting. That's why swaged fittings are not permitted in elevators...

dj

 

[jssailem]

Wondering about this issue, I discovered this table posted on the:
Mazzella » Learning Center » Wire Rope End Terminations: Sockets, Wire Rope Clips, and Splices

Efficiencies of Wire Rope End Terminations
The table below will explain the efficiencies of the different types of wire rope end terminations for both independent wire rope core (IWRC) and fiber core (FC) wire rope configurations. Rope efficiency is described as the ratio of a wire rope’s actual breaking strength and the aggregate strength of all individual wires tested separately—usually expressed as a percentage.

	IWRC	FC
Hand-Tucked Splices	80–90%	80–90%
Mechanical Splices	90–95%	90–92.5%
Swaged Steel Fittings	95–100%	90–95%
Poured (Spelter) Sockets*	100%	100%
Wire Rope Clips**	80%	80%
Wedge Sockets	75–90%	75–90%

*Spelter sockets in smaller rope sizes (usually less than 7/16”) may not always develop 100% efficiency and are not recommended by some rope manufacturers.

**When properly applied and maintained per clip manufacturer’s recommendations.

Who is Mazzella?
Here is what they say:
Mazzella Companies is one of the largest independently-owned companies in the overhead lifting and rigging industries

 

[dLj]

There's the fatigue aspect not captured in the above, but the poured fittings have always been considered the "gold standard" in wire rope fittings. When I worked in that area, it was the only fitting permitted. Of course, the sizes we worked with would never have been below at least 1/2" and more at the 1" and above.

I'd be very interested to see if you can find fatigue ratings for the different fittings. Love the numbers for the swaged fittings.

dj

p.s. an overhead rating does not mean you get 100% strength of the wire rope, it's that the strength that you achieve is reliable and does not change over time and usage. Of course within reason...

 

[dLj]

Just a quick look on Mcmaster shows the only fittings for "overhead" ratings are mechanical, the swaged fittings are not rated for overhead:

dj

 

[jviss]

Be that as it may, swaged fittings are the dominant rigging system in the sailboat industry. You occasionally (rarely) hear of rigs failing due to rigging failure, but I venture to guess that a poor configuration [1] or an aged rig is to blame.

[1] An example of a poor configuration would be where there is not a straight pull from a swaged fitting, i.e., a toggle is called for but not installed. The non-straight pull stresses the wire where it exits the fitting. My Catalina 36 had this issue with the shrouds, and I installed toggles.

 

[dLj]

Be that as it may, swaged fittings are the dominant rigging system in the sailboat industry. You occasionally (rarely) hear of rigs failing due to rigging failure, but I venture to guess that a poor configuration [1] or an aged rig is to blame.

[1] An example of a poor configuration would be where there is not a straight pull from a swaged fitting, i.e., a toggle is called for but not installed. The non-straight pull stresses the wire where it exits the fitting. My Catalina 36 had this issue with the shrouds, and I installed toggles.

I think we may be clouding what my original statement was intending. I'm not knocking swaged fittings. They are indeed pretty much the industry standard and have been shown to work well.

I was really only pointing out that the list written used the logic for selecting mechanical fittings were simply DIY reasons. There are actually also engineering reasons.

Swaged fittings work great. It was not my intent to imply otherwise.

dj

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Well, the list you referenced (my list) was really intended to be relevant to the reasons why sailors may choose mechanical fittings over swaged fittings. Sure, there are reasons why swaged fittings are not suitable for elevators, I suppose, but reliability doesn't appear to be a reason to avoid swaged fittings on sailboats. Not that there isn't the odd sailor who does consider it an issue ....

 

[jssailem]

Not that there isn't the odd sailor who does consider it

Lost in a foreign location, with a broken shroud/stay, all things are considered.

Had a dock mate who was short on cash. Used a couple of clamps and ordinary cable to secure a shroud to a chainplate when his shroud was about to fail. Sailed with it for two seasons until his finances improved.

Any port in a storm is better than thrashing about at sea.