Newbie Fresh and Green

[Clay Smith]

Allow me to introduce myself, my name is Clay Smith. I retired almost three years ago. As a child I sailed I think it was a sunfish at a boys camp on Catalina Island 3 years in a row. So other than reading sailing literature and watching tons of videos over the last two years I have VERY little experience compared to 99% of you all here. I started looking at boats the end of last summer. And was looking for that Super budget deal. I soon figured out the budget deals meant more repair and past due maintenance than I wanted to perform. Some at this site already know my story somewhat. As I was looking at a 1986 36-2, fin keel Pearson. I posted about that boat on the pearson forum under the same Topic name as the post you are reading now. The broker for that Pearson talked me into putting a 10% deposit down to hold the boat. After viewing the boat without my hired surveyor and seeing keel damage which may or may not have been an issue I canceled the Survey I had scheduled for the boat. After my wife Abby and I had seen the Pearson with the owner we deciced it wasnt the right boat for our vision anyway. After speaking with the surveyor I had hired he told me of another Pearson at Sodus Point on lake Ontario. Thats when I found the 2000 hunter 420 passage I'm now in contract with. Yes I know they are miles apart from each other in design and handling but I ain't Scared. Still I know I have bitten off alot to chew. Now the purchase wont be complete until around the 1st of July, which gives me time to take sailing lessons which have now been scheduled. Also it gives me time to acquire insurance and a new home port. I will stop for now as I have other things I need to tend to around our upstate NY home. I will be driving some of you crazy with all the questions I will ask, like I said I'm green. Until I resume on this post I would love to here your comments and suggestions and I will value all constructive critisism along the way. Until then here are a few pics of the boat I am buying. Her new name will be "Carol Ann".

 

[BobH57]

Wise choice- you'll love your new 420. If you haven't already, check out youtube channel "Jib Sea" by a young Canadian couple with a 420 Passage. They've done a trans-Atlantic passage and are getting ready to head for the Med.

 

[kappykaplan]

Good luck with your endeavors! That is a lot of boat for your first one.

 

[dLj]

That's one beautiful boat! A bit of a step up from a sunfish, but hey, if the wife is happy and you are happy, then sail on!

There were no questions in this post so not sure what you want for feedback. I'd suggest you find a friend that knows how to sail boats of that size and have them help you out for the first few times. What I can see from your pictures is you have in-mast roller furling main, roller furling foresail (job or genoa, don't know) and a fractional rig. The Hunter 420 Passage has a good reputation as far as I'm aware. You may wish to go to the Big boat section of the Hunter Owner Forums here on SBO and look around.

When you do have questions, come back around... Welcome to the sailing world!

dj

 

[Clay Smith]

dLj Yes sir I haven't asked any questions yet but thanks for your response. Mostly I was just trying to introduce myself so the reader could get to know me a little. Having said that if you saw my pics you will see that she has no dinghy davits as of yet. i know nothing about dingy davits other than they hold the dingy out of the water. Not sure how much you can support with them ? How they mount onto the boat so as to not become loose over time. Are they someyhing you can buy out of the box or do people have them custom fabricated. Basically I will soak up all the info people want to offer. Also I would like to know your guys thoughts on dinghys. Aluminum hull, verses fiber glass, verses soft bottom. Ive watched quite a few videos and advertisements on dinghys so I got the obvious differences, but what do you guys prefer and why? I can tell you I'll be looking for a balance between performance and economy. Also Ive seen a lot of bad press on the West Marine stuff. Im leaning toward a aluminum hull. My hope is to take Carol Ann out the Saint Lawrence or down the Erie Canal to the Atlantic and go south down the east coast maybe the Bahamas. So I probably dont want pvc I'm guessing. Your thoughts on the above topics would be appreciated.

 

[kappykaplan]

How they mount onto the boat so as to not become loose over time.

There are quite a few posts on this site that can provide you with some ideas. Here are some examples:

Davits for a 1999 Hunter 380

Can anyone give me a recommendation for davits for my 1999 Hunter 380? I will be raising a 9.5' Highfield weighing 130 lbs. plus a 60 pound outboard. Thank you so much Tom

forums.sailboatowners.com

Hunter 40 Series Davits

I’ve been looking at the Hunter 40 Series Davit document attached and wondering if these Davits are available for sale anywhere? I don’t see them on the Hunter site any longer. Failing that if someone has the measurements of the various components I am thinking I would see about having a set...

forums.sailboatowners.com

Ultimate Solar/Davit System with 1340 watts, storage, floating dock, built in shower.

Hi there, I am new to the forum but wanted to share our recent davit project with you all. We added a custom stainless steel arch to our Hunter 41 DS. It was welded directly to the original traveler arch. Key Features. PROs: 1)1340 Watts of Solar. (four 335 watt pannels) Provides some serious...

forums.sailboatowners.com

Catalina 380 lift/Davit for Dinghy

Hi All, I'm reaching out for some guidance/experience with procuring and using a lift system for my new dinghy. In the offseason I purchased an 11 foot dinghy with a steering console and 20hp engine. All told it weighs about 550 lbs. I live in western Suffolk county on long island and take...

forums.sailboatowners.com

 

[dLj]

dLj Yes sir I haven't asked any questions yet but thanks for your response. Mostly I was just trying to introduce myself so the reader could get to know me a little. Having said that if you saw my pics you will see that she has no dinghy davits as of yet. i know nothing about dingy davits other than they hold the dingy out of the water. Not sure how much you can support with them ? How they mount onto the boat so as to not become loose over time. Are they someyhing you can buy out of the box or do people have them custom fabricated. Basically I will soak up all the info people want to offer. Also I would like to know your guys thoughts on dinghys. Aluminum hull, verses fiber glass, verses soft bottom. Ive watched quite a few videos and advertisements on dinghys so I got the obvious differences, but what do you guys prefer and why? I can tell you I'll be looking for a balance between performance and economy. Also Ive seen a lot of bad press on the West Marine stuff. Im leaning toward a aluminum hull. My hope is to take Carol Ann out the Saint Lawrence or down the Erie Canal to the Atlantic and go south down the east coast maybe the Bahamas. So I probably dont want pvc I'm guessing. Your thoughts on the above topics would be appreciated.

Somebody gave me advice once that when buying a new to you boat - sail her for a year before making any kind of major changes - of course if there is nothing that needs doing to sail her.

There can be a lot of things that happen over that year, things can show up that you'll place higher on your priority list. I'd suggest to hang back for at least a sailing season and then decide what kind of things you'll really want.

@kappykaplan gave you lots of links to dingy threads. In summary, it depends upon how you are using your dingy and what your personal preferences are.

If it was just me and the wife, as you describe above, what does she want? Make your decisions with her - not for her. Just my 2 cents worth...

dj

 

[rgranger]

Somebody gave me advice once that when buying a new to you boat - sail her for a year before making any kind of major changes - of course if there is nothing that needs doing to sail her.
dj

You can alway tow a dink for a season. Unless you plan on passage making, you don't really risk the dink getting swamped while sailing. You just need to keep your eye on the weather forecast and don't get caught out in open water with your dink in tow. So if your plan is to coastal cruise for a year, you could get by with towing your dink. I towed a dink behind a Hunter 26, (much smaller boat) without any challenges.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Dinghy selection, in my mind, is completely based on cost vs use. We don't use a dinghy very much at all, so a PVC, inflatable soft bottom was the most economical choice ... something that I can put in a bag and leave on shore when I don't need it. Obviously, the more money you have to spend, the better the dinghy you will buy. Many don't like putting their dinghy on davits. Some boats aren't large enough to perform will with the weight hanging off the stern. Your boat will easily handle a moderate-sized dinghy, but if you have something bigger in mind then the size may become an issue. Many consider that a dinghy hanging off the back end is in the way and not a good place for it. Some will use davits at times and also have storage for the dinghy on the foredeck. It all depends on your activities on the boat. One thing is for sure, a dinghy just gets in the way a lot of the time, so I would look around and get used to how you use your boat a bit before choosing your preferences. A general consensus in this forum will be just about impossible because of the variety of opinions, boats, dinghies and budgets we all have. Everybody's situation is virtually unique. Preference for a dinghy is one of those things where the variables and options are just so great that there is no good answer - you will just have to make up your own mind, I think. But if you are using it on rocky shores a lot, I think aluminum hulls will be far more forgiving than any other, including fiberglass.

I'll second following JibSea on YouTube. Their circumstance may be very similar to yours and they are a really nice couple to watch, with some very interesting travels and activities. Sue and I have been following them for over a year now.

 

[Clay Smith]

Scott T-Bird Thanks for your response. So the biggest consensus I see here is to Sail for a year and then decide about a davit and even wait on the dinghy. Based on BobH57 pointing me to sailing Jibsea I've binge watched the first 12 episodes and in those episodes it looks like they have a aluminum hull dingy pulled up and resting sideways on their sugar scoop and tied off at the rail. So I'm gonna put the davits down the list of priorties. As far as the dinghy goes I dont know what I'll choose, I tend to usally side on performance though. I would like a dinghy soon as I plan to spend days at a time on the boat anchored in coves and such. For at least the first season I'll be sailing around lake Ontario and so Iike your idea of just towing the dinghy for now. Again thanks for the response.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I've binge watched the first 12 episodes and in those episodes it looks like they have a aluminum hull dingy pulled up and resting sideways on their sugar scoop and tied off at the rail. So I'm gonna put the davits down the list of priorties. As far as the dinghy goes I dont know what I'll choose, I tend to usally side on performance though. I would like a dinghy soon as I plan to spend days at a time on the boat anchored in coves and such. For at least the first season I'll be sailing around lake Ontario and so Iike your idea of just towing the dinghy for now. Again thanks for the response.

That's not a bad idea about sideways on the platform. In fact, I've done the same thing, but not when we're sailing. I've only done this when we left the boat in the slip during the week, simply to get it out of the water without putting it away. I have an outboard lifting davit on my stern and I used it to lift one end and secure it. The other end I lifted myself and tied to the rail. One reason we haven't used our dinghy much is that we don't have a motor for it. It's hard to justify buying a motor when we don't use the dinghy much ... we don't use the dinghy much because we don't have a motor! It's one of those Catch 22 things, I guess! The more you anchor, the more you will want and need a dinghy. On your rocky shores, a durable bottom would be most important, I think. I'd lean towards the aluminum bottom as well. Towing is a reasonable way to go until you get much more serious about sailing in all conditions. I've been towing all over the bay and on trips on the ocean as well.

 

[Steve L22188]

Congrats on your new boat! I started on a sunfish and didn't know what I was doing. Then bought a 24' O'Day - still didn't know what I was doing. Took some lessons - started figuring things out. Then moved to a 30' O'Day...then have chartered 40 footers in the BVIs 6-7 times.

After that initial "Holy smokes this boat is a lot bigger than the old one!" reaction I soon figured out they all sail the same....the basic physics doesn't change much from a Sunfish to a 40-footer.

Looks like a beautiful boat. Enjoy it. You can do this!

 

[rgranger]

....the basic physics doesn't change much from a Sunfish to a 40-footer.

This was my first boat...

I think learning to sail on a small boat makes you a more intuitive sailor. If you take the time to also learn the fundamentals then you are an even better big-boat sailor.

 

[DRhoads]

Welcome aboard Clay. You are going to love the 420. As you can see, I have one and the wife loves it so couldn't do much better there. She is a bit difficult in the marina (the boat not the wife) with the high freeboard and winds 12kts+ for a new owner but caution and good planning one can always prevail. Once on the water you're going to love the stability and performance. A friend of mine with a Catalina 45 is always at my 6. Good luck and always have fun.

 

[jssailem]

Clay. There are many options for dinghies. Certainly there are the Zodiacs and all the clones - be they Rib’s or inflatables.

Some folk down under came up with a twist, calling them “Takacat’s”.

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Stable and fast.

Then there are Pudgy’s, paddle boards, kayak’s and row/sail boats all of which serve as tenders to get crew to shore with nothing but dampened shoe laces.

The idea of waiting a bit till you gain a little insight into your needs/desires is good advice.

Saves the cruising kitty for the real important stuff like Rum. Needed as a medicinal moment to celebrate your safe arrival in your Port of Call.

This pause will also give you time to search all of the voids and hidden spaces on your boat for left over treasures.

 

[High Current]

I think learning to sail on a small boat makes you a more intuitive sailor. If you take the time to also learn the fundamentals then you are an even better big-boat sailor.

I totally agree. I learned so much intuition and technique sailing my tipply little O'day 16 on a small lake with shifty winds...

But there's a lot of OTHER stuff you need to know to own, navigate, and manage a big boat, beyond just how to ride the wind. You might consider taking a couple of ASA courses to help you get back into it. I also spent a lot of time reading the Chapman Piloting manual when I was getting started and would recommend owning a copy.

 

[Clay Smith]

R Granger thanks for sharing your knowledge. I have already booked 2 ASA sailing courses. I may have to cancel those though as my daughter in law wants to know why I don’t take the courses from her dad who is a qualified instructer on the west coast and wants me to come sailing with him anyways. I will pick up a copy of the Chapman Piloting Manual.

 

[rgranger]

...as my daughter in law wants to know why I don’t take the courses from her dad who is a qualified instructer on the west coast and wants me to come sailing with him anyways.

That sounds like a win wind (see what I did there)

 

[dlochner]

For Lake Ontario, dinghy davits are not necessary. I've always towed the dinghy. On ocean crossings dinghies are usually stored on deck to get the weight off the back end and to prevent the dinghy from filling with water from a following sea. On our trip to the Bahamas we towed the dinghy the entire way, only putting it on deck when we crossed the Gulf Stream.

The survey will reveal some items that will need to be replaced or upgraded, spend your money on that first. Then as others have said get to know the boat and yourselves on the boat before spending lots more money.

 

[Clay Smith]

Thank you dlochner for your sharing of knowledge. Dave here's another question then. Do certain dinghys tow better behind the boat than others? Soft vs. hard hulls. one brand vs. another? Also someone said the weight is not really an issue on a 42' boat. I'm not dead set on davits just on the aquisition of knowledge.