What did he mean when he said this?

dlochner · Jan 19, 2023

Well, the writer is probably not very open to new experiences, at the least.

Sailing, like many other interests is not immune to snobbery. Out of context, this quote seems to be an example of that snobbery. In what magazine was this published? Who was the author?

Every keel design has advantages and disadvantages. The important aspect is having a keel that matches your intended use, it seems your boat has such a keel. If you were primarily racing the boat in a competitive fleet of similar sized boats, like the J22, then your keel would be at a disadvantage, a fin keel would be better.

tfox2069 · Jan 19, 2023

The writer simply meant that they weren't happy with sailing a boat with 2 feet, 8 inches of draft and the attendant leeway disadvantages relative to deeper keel boats that a short keel inherently brings when sailing upwind. Everyone has tradeoffs they're willing to accept and not accept. Not clear on why you would be insulted by something written 22 years ago about someone else's preferences for a sailboat, but shake off the perceived insult and go out and have a blast with your family on the Capri 22. You'll make amazing memories and experience sailing waters that writer couldn't with a deeper keel.

Scott T-Bird · Jan 19, 2023

Yes, it did seem like a dis on the wing keel. For a while, I also had an aversion to wing keels (based on reputation). When I realized how limiting my bias was, I finally was able to seek a boat that has made me very happy. To be fair, he did seem to provide a review that was generally favorable. That seemed to be his only biased comment. Offended? That seems a bit over-sensitive.

Hollyberry · Jan 19, 2023

Robert Perry is an immensely talented and well known designer, but he's never been shy about his opinions... nor necessarily tactful in his expression of them.

dlochner · Jan 19, 2023

Ah, Robert Perry, a well known yacht designer of many many fine production and custom boats. He is also known as an opinionated curmudgeon, as evidenced by this line in the review:

I applaud Catalina for not following the herd down the Euro styling path or is it the path of "Eurine."

Do not be offended by Perry, even though at times his opinions might not be quite presented in a civil manner. He is fond of posting in Sailing Anarchy, which if you follow online forums is not known for civility. Nonetheless he is quite talented and knowledgeable, his opinions are worth noting. Overall I thought the review was quite favorable, his one comment about the wing keel represents a general opinion about wing keels rather than a specific comment on the Capri 22's wing keel and the reasons you chose it.

Sailing magazine is also a bit edgier than the major publications, like Sail, Sailing World, and Cruising World. There seems to be a bit more latitude in how editorial opinions are expressed.

Take a look at Perry's website and you'll get a better understanding of his work and ideas. In the meantime, start dreaming about the upcoming sailing season and the places you want to go and things you want to learn,

Robert H. Perry Yacht Designers

perryboat.com

Wyo George · Jan 19, 2023

1.
Take anything written in magazines with a grain of salt. I’ve read two articles by the same guy who praised a product in one and bashed it in another.

2.
Don’t stress or get offended about someone else’s opinion. We all have opinions and they aren’t wrong or right because they’re simply opinions.

Enjoy the new boat :beer:

Terry Cox · Jan 19, 2023

Our boat has a wing keel with a draft of 4'-11". Over the years I have observed some amount of drift while close hauled over a long leg, but never really that bothersome. No racer here, but I do like the bulb wing keel design with a 4' fin where it attaches.

Captain Larry-DH · Jan 19, 2023

Every boat incorporates various design and build compromises. Yes that goes for Robert Perry's boats too.
10 years ago I would have looked upon my present (new to me) boat with disdain. I would have called it slow, boxy, heavy, and snidely referred to it as a "condomaran". Now I think speed is overrated, room to move around inside with comfort and stability on an anchor or mooring is important, and I lovingly refer to it as a condomaran.

So, yes there are pros and cons to every boat. Hooray for choices!

Leeward Rail · Jan 19, 2023

dlochner said:
Do not be offended by Perry, even though at times his opinions might not be quite presented in a civil manner.

Civil manner is for fancy dinner parties and duels. I love that he has no issues in saying what he thinks. Sadly lacking today in general.
Ask me what I think of Hardly Davidson motorcycles and PWCs.

Marmalade · Jan 19, 2023

The ironic thing to me is that Bob Perry readily admits he was (still is?) paid by Sailing magazine to write reviews like this by simply reviewing line-drawings, brochures, and manufacture pictures... he doesn't set foot on them, and certainly doesn't sail them.

Obviously based on his experience, he picks-up a lot... and has good analysis... but his "reviews" are reviews of documents, not the actual boats.

And as others have said... he is a very salty old opinionated geezer... in the best possible way!

dlochner · Jan 19, 2023

Marmalade said:
The ironic thing to me is that Bob Perry readily admits he was (still is?) paid by Sailing magazine to write reviews like this by simply reviewing line-drawings, brochures, and manufacture pictures... he doesn't set foot on them, and certainly doesn't sail them.

Obviously based on his experience, he picks-up a lot... and has good analysis... but his "reviews" are reviews of documents, not the actual boats.

And as others have said... he is a very salty old opinionated geezer... in the best possible way!

When the big glossies review boats it is for advertising revenue. Every boat is beautiful and well thought out, except for the obligatory minor flaw and they all sail like a dream.

Rob Mazza, a former C&C designer has a similar gig at Good Old Boat, he reviews several similar boats based on line drawings, photos, and dimensions. No advertising dollars at play on these reviews as most of the companies have long since gone out of business.

Ted · Jan 19, 2023

And let's not forget that it was a wing keel on the boat that took the America's Cup away from the US. That victory ended the longest winning streak in sporting history. Perry has had his share of criticism on some of the boats he designed.

jssailem · Jan 20, 2023

If you like your Capri 22 what do you care about the reviews. Not all see beauty or utility in the same light.

Having met Perry at a presentation he will talk to all sailors and was quite personable over a beer. Does he like some boat designs and is critical of others sure. What designer is not.

Like all boats out on the water, if they preform to your desired expectations be happy. If not trade up or forego the water and get a Harley.

I find the Capri is a great boat for the purposes you identified. Enjoy and sail her with enthusiasm.

Timm R Oday25 · Jan 20, 2023

The above discussion is exactly why I'm so enamored with this site .A respectful variety of thoughts . Thank you one and all

shemandr · Jan 20, 2023

With all due respect to Mr. Perry I have to conclude he is not sailing on the Indian River Lagoon here in Florida. The OP's Capri would be a good choice for around here with its 2' 8" draft. There is a wide variety of sailing venues which become viable with a low draft vessel on the East coast.

thinwater · Jan 20, 2023

shemandr said:
With all due respect to Mr. Perry I have to conclude he is not sailing on the Indian River Lagoon here in Florida. The OP's Capri would be a good choice for around here with its 2' 8" draft. There is a wide variety of sailing venues which become viable with a low draft vessel on the East coast.

This.

I love sailing with a deep keel. I have and the pointing is a joy. My board sticks about 3 1/2 feet out the bottom and she points well. But I have to lift it every time I get within 1/2 mile of my harbor to clear a bar, and then all the way up to fit into my slip. I nice 6' keel would mean many places I could not go, $200-300/month more in slip fees, and and extra hour of motoring every time I sail. I don't want to experience any one of those. My last boat had long shoal keels and pointed ... not quite as well but not bad after I lengthened the keels. But somewhere else 6' could make perfect sense.

Horses for courses.

DArcy · Jan 20, 2023

I enjoy sailing my Robert Perry designed Islander Freeport 36. He certainly has drawn a lot of very nice boats over the years and understands performance cruising sailboat design more than pretty much anyone. But he is a grumpy curmudgeon in his writing. I met him many years ago (around the time that article was written) and did find he was quite personable in person.

Ted said:
And let's not forget that it was a wing keel on the boat that took the America's Cup away from the US. That victory ended the longest winning streak in sporting history. Perry has had his share of criticism on some of the boats he designed.

That was a rule beater design, draft was limited by the 12 meter rule so the wing keel was apropos. That design was the beginning of the end of 12 meters in the America's Cup as designers began to see the loopholes in the rules. Deeper keels will always outperform shoal draft wing keels, they are just more efficient foils creating more lift with less drag.

A cruising boat design often compromises for a less efficient option so a shoal draft wing keel (even a stubby 2'8" keel) can be a great option if you are sailing in skinny water and don't mind giving up a little VMG to the windward mark.

What did he mean when he said this?

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SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

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