Navigation electronics for a trailer sailor

[jssailem]

I understand most of these systems are not needed for the tried and true sailer

I’ve followed this question and response about the set up for your new boat. Congrats on that.

I agree with Dave's insight. If you desire to have those sons quickly become sailboat proficient, then get them onto a couple of dinghy's out on a lake or bay and have them sail against each other. Something with a single sail and fun. If they become hooked on sailing, they will learn what the wind does and how to tame it. Kind of like putting a hoop in the back yard and giving them a basket ball.

While instruments are nice, if you rely on them you will always be sailing behind the boat and wind. You will be waiting for the sensors to tell you what they think is happening. Then you will have to figure out how to act upon this data stream. Learn on a small boat and when you feel the breeze on the back of your neck you will know how to react. Because.. in a dinghy unless you react now you will be flipped and tossed in the water. Do that a few times and your reaction time becomes automatic.

Thinking about your concern for the shallow waters, think about the boat. It has a minimum draft 1.25 ft. You can lift the center board and scoot over most of the risks. That chart plotter you want to rely on will always be out of date if you have moving shoals. All you can really hope for is having current charts to know the approximate depths and mark the charts as you venture across the water with the depths you discover. Marked charts have been around for centuries. Suprisingly they are still better than most chart plotters. Just ask the "professional sailors who sailed Vestas in the Volvo Ocean Race. Volvo Ocean Race Team Vestas

Not saying that navigational tools are bad to have, they are just like cell phones. You can become addicted to their magic and then they keep your head looking at the screen and you miss the experience happening around you and the boat. Keeping your head looking at the water is far better for new and old sailors.

 

[Ward H]

I like tech so I went overboard on my instrument install. Do I need them for day sailing on the bay? No. Not much chance of getting lost so the CP wasn't needed. I watch the water conditions to estimate wind speed so I don't need wind instruments. I like to set the AP to sail to wind rather than a bearing but that's only because most of my day sailing is enjoying sailing and being on the water, no destination required.

So yes, sailing without the instruments is possible and I do practice at times with instruments off but I also don't plan on using a paper chart to run Oyster Creek Channel and out the Barnegat Inlet. The channel is winding, markers can be hard to read, depths vary due to shoaling and currents run strong.
So, I check wind and current on my laptop or iPad, I follow my previous tracks and verify markers on my chart plotter and watch my depth sounder carefully. I also watch my SOG and STW on my displays.

When I was sailing with @jssailem and @LeslieTroyer on the Georgia Strait and in the San Juan's on Les's C36 we made use of the tech Les had. AIS was especially useful when a high speed ferry was going to cross our path in a snow storm. They called us on the VHF, we confirmed our intentions and we crossed safely.

I like all aspects of sailing and having the tech is one of them.

 

[BarryL]

Hey,

It's your boat and only you can decide on the gear you equip your boat with. There are no wrong answers. If you want a modern plotter that is integrated to your tiller pilot, receives wind, depth, and speed through water, calculates and displays true and apparent wind, that's up to you.

Regarding steering by magnetic compass vs electronic compass, IMO both suck and are difficult to use. Of course it all depends on the weather and conditions. Upwind, with a moderate breeze and seas, the boat should basically steer it self, Downwind, in a blow, the boat will slew around and steering is difficult. Have that happen offshore, at night, with cloud cover (no starts to steer by) and holding a steady course is extremely difficult. At the end of June I helped bring a newport bermuda race boat back to NY. Once out of sight of land, the ONLY way to steer was by compass, either magnetic or electronic. Both were difficult to use in any sort of seas. At night, with a clear sky, steering by the stars was WAY easier than by the compass.

Barry

 

[dLj]

I understand most of these systems are not needed for the tried and true sailer who has many hours at the helm. I have a wife and 2 boys who are wanting to learn to sail. Having these instruments on board so they know how the boat responds to what the exact changes the weather I believe to be helpful to building a sound foundation for seamanship. True they should never be relied upon 100% but they should help to build that knowledge faster. Im sure there will be many days these instruments will never get turned on, but I would rather have them and not need them.

Well we may just have to agree to disagree on this point. from my perspective, it is both very liberating and highly educational to learn to sail without instrumentation first. Learn to feel the wind, observe the sails, adjust to the conditions. Tell-tails on your sails do help a lot. A thin piece of yarn or string attached to various points of the rigging and away you go...

I think the one piece of electronics that can aid in learning is a distance/knot meter. There is one that can tell you if you are increasing or decreasing in speed. That can be quite useful when making minor adjustments to sails and watching how your speed changes. Sometimes that is so subtle that having that instrument can really help.

I used to own the original Mac 26 with water ballast. Sailed it in the Gulf of Mexico, the Georgian Bay and many places in between. Great little boat and a good boat to learn on.

My list of instruments for you for that boat would likely be (from what you've described) a depth sounder, a knot/distance meter, a VHF, a standard magnetic compass (ya gotta calibrate them) and a cell phone (or similar) running a navigation program such as navionics.

Take the rest of the money you didn't spend and take your family out to dinner and then go sailing with the rest in your pocket....

dj

 

[dlochner]

Thanks for the corrections.

What do you recommend my boat have? I will be sailing mostly in protected bays but shifting bottoms. Definitely need a depth finder as I will be sailing out of the dedicated chanels to reach some of the islands to camp. Seems a chart plotter with depth would be required? To add all the rest of my wants seems just a step away. Am I wrong?

Before the electronics, having fun when learning to sail is the most important factor. If the kids and momma ain't having fun, then no one will be having fun and the boat will be for sale in short order. Keep it fun and light.

The one instrument that can help with learning to sail is a knot meter. As the other Dave said, this gives immediate feedback on changes to sail trim and their effect on boat speed. Since many transducers now include depth along with speed and temperature that one instrument will provide enough information.

A tablet with a data plan running a nav program will suffice for navigation. Use it for route planning and then leave it in the cabin so bad habits don't develop. There are a number of Nav programs out there. I'm a fan of Aquamaps, lots of features, easy to use, and data is updated every day (that's why the data plan is a good idea).

A bulkhead mounted magnetic compass is also needed. Make it large enough that it can be easily read from anywhere in the cockpit.

Those three items will provide all the information you need to get started.

 

[dLj]

Before the electronics, having fun when learning to sail is the most important factor. If the kids and momma ain't having fun, then no one will be having fun and the boat will be for sale in short order. Keep it fun and light.

This is probably the best advice anyone has given you....

dj

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Where you sail, I would have a chartplotter for sure. When we hit bottom, we're touching soft sand or mud. Where you hit bottom, you are doing significant damage, it doesn't matter that your draft is adjustable. I definitely would go to Defender and get the B&G Triton package that gives you 2 multi displays & transducers for wind (wired or wireless - you have a choice), speed, depth; a NMEA backbone starter package; and the external GPS antennae. Get a B&G Vulcan chartplotter that integrates fully with what you want ... it has internal GPS but you want the external GPS because without it you don't get some of the sailing features or the tidal information. Get the B&G VHF that has AIS receiver for sure. For extra money you can get the B&G VHF that is AIS receive and transmit. You can get the Simrad tiller pilot. All will be integrated and you'll love it. You can add radar, sonar, whatever as wanted or needed. Stick with one manufacturer is what I recommend. My choice is B&G but you can't go wrong with Raymarine. I wouldn't suggest any other manufacturer, honestly. Look at all the You Tube blue water sailors ... most go with B&G as far as I can tell. Some with Raymarine .... none with something else. Pacific Northwest sailing ... you need instruments for sure, don't let anybody talk you out.

I use the chartplotter ALL the time because I need to know precisely where I will go aground (many places if I'm not careful) and I hate to be uncertain. You will get all the usual responses ... learn to navigate the traditional way, have back-ups, feel the wind on your neck ... blah, blah, blah. You want electronics? We all don't sail without them, regardless of what we say. Get the electronics you want ... you won't go wrong if you go with the modern systems.

 

[JBP-PA]

To add all the rest of my wants seems just a step away. Am I wrong?

I was in the same spot a few years ago. On my trailer sailer my depth/speed instruments went kerflewy and I wanted mostly the same list as you. (Wanted, not needed) I got a B&G kit with wind, DST, GPS/Compass, 2 MFDs, and a NMEA 2000 starter kit for about $1,000 on sale. I already had a Raymarine ST 2000+ (old Seatalk or old NMEA 0183) tiller pilot. I added an network interface that converts between NMEA 2000, 0183, old Seatalk, and NMEA 0183 over WIFI. An old tablet with openCPN for a chart plotter on wifi integrates with everything. I don't have a dedicated chart plotter, but I can use the tablet anywhere. The MFDs in the cockpit give me basic route info sent by openCPN. I also use Navionics, which I prefer for in harbors, but it doesn't integrate well with my network, it only receives data, but won't send route info.
On the Airmar DST 810, it does only protrude a little, but you still don't want to hit it with a roller or a bunk.