Fresh water flush

[Xstream]

Hello again.
Some further explanation, and also to hope to avoid you having to do unnecessary work.
The REASON people consider using fresh water for manual toilets is BECAUSE they float in SALT WATER with their boats, and because when saltwater sits in the toilet hoses unused it SMELLS when the head is pumped. That is the ONLY reason. That simple. Really.
You are in a fresh water lake. You do not have this problem. There is abslutely NO reason to bother using drinking water to flush your toilet. There is no reason to not simply use the thru hull inlet valve for your toilet. You will NOT get the smells associated with saltwater in marine toilets.
Save yourself all the work.
All the best.

Based on what others in the club I belong to say-the water in this "freshwater" lake goes bad when sitting in the hoses and toilet over a few days-say from weekend to weekend. That's why many of them flush out the system with a bucket of fresh water after they shut off the lake water. Or they don't use lake water at all, but instead carry a few gallons of fresh water to use to flush the head if someone uses it. Hardly anyone actually keeps fresh water in their tanks.
It's about 100 yards to a bathhouse with showers and flush toilets so one can usually hold it if working or lounging on their boat in the slips.
Thanks.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Based on what others in the club I belong to say-the water in this "freshwater" lake goes bad when sitting in the hoses and toilet over a few days-say from weekend to weekend. That's why many of them flush out the system with a bucket of fresh water after they shut off the lake water. Or they don't use lake water at all, but instead carry a few gallons of fresh water to use to flush the head if someone uses it. Hardly anyone actually keeps fresh water in their tanks.

I described the best solution for that problem in post #4 (also in my book):
Sink drain thru-hulls are below the waterline on almost all sailboats. Close the intake thru-hull and remove the intake line. Re-route it to tee or wye it into the head sink drain line as close to the seacock as possible because the connection must be below waterline to work.
This will allow you to flush normally with sea water. After you’ve closed the sink drain seacock in preparation to close up the boat (you do close all seacocks before leaving the boat to sit??), fill the sink with clean fresh water and flush the toilet. Because the seacock is closed, the toilet will draw the water out of the sink, rinsing the sea water out of the entire system—intake line, pump, channel in the rim of the bowl and the discharge line,(Water poured into the bowl only rinses out the toilet discharge line). Or you can keep the sink drain seacock closed except when it's needed to drain the sink and flush with fresh water down the sink all the time...your choice.

You haven't mentioned the other end of the sanitation system yet--the holding tank. Managing it requires a bit of a learning curve too.

--Peggie

 

[Stu Jackson]

@Xstream

I understand. Then I would humbly suggest that the very simpler solution that those of us with saltwater surrounding our boats is just as valid a solution for you. Just T into the sink drain and use the LAST FLUSH OF THE DAY with freshwater from the sink. You'll waste a lot less fresh water. And won't have to add that extra tank and hose.
Your boat, your choice.

 

[Xstream]

You know, ten years ago that would have been a good idea, but now days, I'm lucky if I can remember where I parked the truck when I walk out of Walmart. Usually there are so many things to remember when leaving the boat at the end of the day that I would only remember to do the toilet after I had traveled halfway home: 30 miles and probably in the dark.

 

[Tally Ho]

You could do what I do (my lav sink drain is not below the waterline). After sailing, and using the head and flushing with lake water, I do a final flush at the dock using my hand-held shower. Rinse out the bowl with fresh water and pump it dry…pushing fresh water through the hoses.:

Greg

 

[Xstream]

I described the best solution for that problem in post #4 (also in my book):
Sink drain thru-hulls are below the waterline on almost all sailboats. Close the intake thru-hull and remove the intake line. Re-route it to tee or wye it into the head sink drain line as close to the seacock as possible because the connection must be below waterline to work.
This will allow you to flush normally with sea water. After you’ve closed the sink drain seacock in preparation to close up the boat (you do close all seacocks before leaving the boat to sit??), fill the sink with clean fresh water and flush the toilet. Because the seacock is closed, the toilet will draw the water out of the sink, rinsing the sea water out of the entire system—intake line, pump, channel in the rim of the bowl and the discharge line,(Water poured into the bowl only rinses out the toilet discharge line). Or you can keep the sink drain seacock closed except when it's needed to drain the sink and flush with fresh water down the sink all the time...your choice.

You haven't mentioned the other end of the sanitation system yet--the holding tank. Managing it requires a bit of a learning curve too.

--Peggie

I haven't actually sailed this boat yet, just refurbishing it. I like this solution. The sink drain is below the waterline-about eight inches or so up the hull from the dedicated sea water inlet for the toilet. So, when the boat is heeled over on that side, there is no chance water will come up into the sink?
Since I am on an inland lake, in Kansas, there is no option for overboard discharge. Therefore, I took out the "Y" valve (and capped the overboard discharge thru hull) and replaced it with a vented loop. I replaced all the sewer hose. The toilet pumps up to the loop, then down the other side and another 15 feet or so to the holding tank-which on this boat is in the starboard cockpit locker, a couple of feet from the transom. Ironically it is on the same side as the toilet and only about six feet away as the crow flies. As I understand it, seven pumps per meter of sewer hose, so 35-40 pumps to get to the holding tank, or use all that hose as extra capacity. Choose a product for digestion of biomass and odor control, pretty much like my RV. The holding tank is vented for pump out.
Thank you for your time.
Little boy is grocery shopping with his mommy and asks her to buy him a box of animal crackers (little circus wagon), so she does. When they get home, Johnny opens up the box and dumps all the animal crackers out on the kitchen table. His mommy asks "what are you doing, Johnny?" Johnny says: mommy, the box says "if seal is broken, do not eat"!

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I like this solution. The sink drain is below the waterline-about eight inches or so up the hull from the dedicated sea water inlet for the toilet. So, when the boat is heeled over on that side, there is no chance water will come up into the sink?

There's actually a strong possibility that heeling CAN turn the sink into a fountain when underway on that tack...easy to solve by keeping a plug in the sink except when it's in use.

Since I am on an inland lake, in Kansas, there is no option for overboard discharge. Therefore, I took out the "Y" valve (and capped the overboard discharge thru hull) and replaced it with a vented loop.

Vented loops are only needed in lines that flush overboard...None is needed in the toilet discharge line if the toilet ONLY flushes into a tank, the loop just unnecessarily adds distance and prob'ly isn't installed high enough to do much good anyway.However, one IS needed in the toilet intake. See Figure 1 on page 3 of the owners manual for correct location (between the pump and the bowl, to replacee the short piece of hose toilet mfrs use to connect 'em...height should be 2-3' above the bowl. Jabsco Manual Twist & Lock owners manual

Others have recommended you buy my book (see link in my signature below), and at the risk of appearing to be self-serving I strongly agree. Its title (my publisher's idea) is a bit misleading...'cuz although it does deal with every source of odor on a boat and how to cure, or better yet PREVENT 'em, it's actually a comprehensive "marine toilets and sanitation systems 101" manual that explains the laws, describes all the types of systems and how they work, and will help you learn how to operate and maintain your system to prevent 99% of problems instead of having to cure 'em. Holding tank maintenance including the vent and the types of products to use in it are among the things it covers in depth. And btw... you'll increase the number of flushes your tank can hold by at least 50% if you'll use the "dry" mode to do more than just pull the last of the water out of the sink...also explained in my book along with how to maintain a trouble free toilet.

--Peggie