I'm considering a 1984 Catalina 27, one in particular. The owner will sell it to me. I plan to have a survey done. But first, there is one issue of which I have great concern. The keel is cracked where it attaches to the bottom of the boat. Both sides look like the photo below. Also, the owner said water began leaking in 5 years or so ago. The water has gotten as high as 2" above the bilge and sole. Water is in the bilge now to the bottom of the sole fiberglass. I'm 3 hours away from the boat. I saw the boat yesterday but had no way to get the water out of the bilge. I either have to make the 3 hour drive back over or hire someone that knows what they're doing to go in their and check it out. But before I spend any money on this, please give me your thoughts on this boat. Would you suspect rot in there? Is that repairable? And keel bolts? Would you expect them to be rusted or corroded? Is this repairable? Is it an expensive repair? Anything else? Should I turn and run? Or perhaps this may not be so bad? I don't know enough to know myself, yet. Thank you.
Catalina 27 keel
- Thread starter 77E27
- Start date
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,044
Your photo shows the boat is out of the water. Is the bilge water from the keel or is it from deck leaks and has no way of getting out of the boat while on the hard.
Two very different problems.
Other have found boats in such condition. Some have priced the cost worth the effort, others are not so inclined to take on a project that would delay their sailing time and have run away.
Tough call, only you can make.
Good questions. The owner said they think the scuppers are leaking. It is on the hard. They said it does not leak in the water. So, your description of the water getting in from above and not being able to get out fits with the owner's description of what they've experienced.
I don't think the crack is that bad. It is between the keel stub and keel. You will see cracks like that on lots of sound boats. It does not mean water is leaking in - although it could.
I am fairly certain the water on the cabin sole is from leaks, which I regard as more of an impediment to purchase than the keel cracks. If the boat was in salt water you can taste the water to distinguish. But if the boat has been on the hard I could practically guarantee it's fresh.
Why would you want to take on this boat?
For me I wouldn't spend the money on a survey and move on to another boat. It's not the keel. It's the leaks. When water, especially fresh water, sits for long periods inside a boat nothing good happens. Wood stringers rot, keel mast support wood/plywood rots. cabin soles warp, bulkheads are undermined and rot. If the leaks are from the chainplates that's a whole other set of problems. Deck? As bad. Run Forest run!
I am fairly certain the water on the cabin sole is from leaks, which I regard as more of an impediment to purchase than the keel cracks. If the boat was in salt water you can taste the water to distinguish. But if the boat has been on the hard I could practically guarantee it's fresh.
Why would you want to take on this boat?
For me I wouldn't spend the money on a survey and move on to another boat. It's not the keel. It's the leaks. When water, especially fresh water, sits for long periods inside a boat nothing good happens. Wood stringers rot, keel mast support wood/plywood rots. cabin soles warp, bulkheads are undermined and rot. If the leaks are from the chainplates that's a whole other set of problems. Deck? As bad. Run Forest run!
They made a bunch of those boats, so there must be an owner's group/forum where you might pose the question about the keel crack? I know the Catalina 30's of that era had some keel attachment issues with a plywood spacer that rots. Don't know if the 27 shares this issue.
I too would be concerned about the fact that the water was a couple inches above the sole for an unknown period of time. Bottom of bulkheads sitting in the water is a concern.
I too would be concerned about the fact that the water was a couple inches above the sole for an unknown period of time. Bottom of bulkheads sitting in the water is a concern.
Pretty common issue with all first generation 27's and 30's.
Check here: catalina smile repair
Also check the bulkheads where the upper shroud chainplates attach for water damage. The lower shrouds should have the factory designed retrofitted backing plates. You can see pics on CatalinaDirect, a vendor for all Catalina small boats. There's a "known issues" list that might be found there...if not someone here may have it. Through hulls should have been upgraded also... so check them out. Good luck.
Check here: catalina smile repair
Also check the bulkheads where the upper shroud chainplates attach for water damage. The lower shrouds should have the factory designed retrofitted backing plates. You can see pics on CatalinaDirect, a vendor for all Catalina small boats. There's a "known issues" list that might be found there...if not someone here may have it. Through hulls should have been upgraded also... so check them out. Good luck.
A 1984 Catalina will have plywood in the keel stub, a known weakness as the plywood can get wet and rot and would need to be dug out and replaced with fiberglass (Catalina has instructions on how to do this). There are two things to look for from the outside: one, are there brown streaks emanating from the crack (in your picture, that doesn't seem to be the case) and two, have the keel bolt nuts and washers in the bilge sunk into the fiberglass. If you see either of these assume the plywood is wet. Also, Catalinas from that era generally leak a lot of rain water so the water doesn't have to be from the keel.
Otherwise, that's not a great looking crack, much more than the typical Catalina smile. At a minimum you're looking at digging/grinding all of the filler out of the crack that you can and filling it back up with 5200 or something. Re-torque the keel and you would be good to go as long as the keel bolts and the plywood in the stub are sound.
Otherwise, that's not a great looking crack, much more than the typical Catalina smile. At a minimum you're looking at digging/grinding all of the filler out of the crack that you can and filling it back up with 5200 or something. Re-torque the keel and you would be good to go as long as the keel bolts and the plywood in the stub are sound.
By "scuppers", do you mean the cockpit drains? If the boat has cockpit drains, they often become clogged and rain will fill the cockpit and overflow the bridge deck, or they can leak into the bilge. I once looked at a 30 footer a widow was giving away, that had water up to the level of the cockpit seats, all the way to the v-berth. Leaves had blocked the cockpit drains and rain had filled the boat with water. I'm surprised the weight of the water didn't crush the boat stands.
I have a Catalina 27 and I bought it knowing it had a Catalina Smile; the keel cracks. I bought it at a good price and enjoyed repairing the crack by filling with thickened epoxy followed by 2, 4, 6 and 8 inch fiberglass tape epoxied in. No need to sand the tape before applying more tape as long as within 24-48 hours. It’s been 7 years and crack has not returned.