H38 - Furling line - Replace cleat with cam cleat?

kappykaplan · May 4, 2021

How do you furl your jib?

Roland5048 · May 4, 2021

Sometimes when it is really blowing and I don't want to let all the headsail out, I will take a turn around a cleat so I can control it. Will you still have something available to do that? Also, if I've had to take a wrap, then the cleating job is half done. Cam cleats do have their use. I'm not sure this is one of them. Also, horn cleats have no moving parts and can serve multiple applications. KISS priciple here. Just a thought.

Rick486 · May 4, 2021

You never want to find yourself holding a line in your hand with high load in windy situation, as could happen with a cam cleat. The horn cleat allows a half wrap to be taken, which eases the load on the hand.

stuartsw · May 4, 2021

To add to the above wisdom, a cam cleat is a solution for a running line, but—especially with foresail furling, one wants a control line solution that does not require tension into the cleating solution, E.g., at anchor or dock in a blow.

kappykaplan · May 4, 2021

Hand-over-hand with sailing gloves should help.

sail sfbay · May 4, 2021

I am in agreement with the other posts to retain the horn cleat and not install a cam cleat for the jib furling line. My former Hunter 386 and now Hunter 46 have a horn cleat and I like it. My wife also likes it a lot, since she is the one who generally unfurlers and furlers the jib sail.

quadrille38 · May 4, 2021

flightlead404 said:
I'm not a fan of the cleating arrangement for the furling line for the job on my H38.

I'm considering replacing the original horn cleat with a cam cleat to enable me to lock off/unlock the furling line more easily when its under tension.

Anyone done that? Thoughts?

On my 38 I did put a cam cleat in in place of the block that was attached to the leg of the arch. I still use the horned cleat as well. The furling line goes from the fair lead on the stancheon to the shackle / cam cleat and then to the horn cleat.
The cam cleat is on a snap shackle so that I can disconnect it and move it out of the way because that’s the side of the boat I board from . It works great especially when partially furling the jib. You have some help as you furl so that the sail doesn’t unroll on you. Letting it out is easy too with just a simple snap of the line to take it out of the cams.

I am going to try to attach a picture but I don’t have anything up close so hopefully you will be able to see it and understand what I’m talking about. If you can’t see from the picture let me know and I will try a different one.

quadrille38 · May 4, 2021

Here is another shot that might be a little easier to see it

ice breaker · May 5, 2021

My solution was to reroute the line through the cabin top spinlock clutch, so I could use the winch to furl it under load and/or let out under load. Really solved my problem.

sail sfbay · May 5, 2021

I wonder whether winching the head sail furling line adds significant lateral stress to the furler and risks damage or worst case breaking the forestay as discussed in these links: Halyard Wrap, Diagnosis, Prevention and Repair. - The Yacht Rigger and "Get the furling line off that winch!"... | YBW Forum and theorise... how to break forestay with furler - Gear Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums

kappykaplan · May 5, 2021

sail sfbay said:
I wonder whether winching the head sail furling line adds significant lateral stress

I'm with you! :beer:

Stu Jackson · May 5, 2021

sail sfbay said:
I wonder whether winching the head sail furling line adds significant lateral stress to the furler and risks damage or worst case breaking the forestay

Good question. In most of these discussions I have read and participated in, I have observed that, as far as I know, ProFurl is the ONLY furler/reefer vendor I know that allows you to use a winch on their system.

Back to the OP's question, many skippers have reported using ratchet blocks and horn cleats as a good solution. The downsides of a standaslone or coaming mounted cam cleat have already been mentioned. A cam cleat built into a ratchet block would seem to me to be a better solution. I have a standard block and a horn cleat on my pushpit, which has been working fine for 24 years. One of the reasons, I believe, is that I always sail with a jib sized for the conditions. Back in SF Bay, I used my 85% jib in the windy summer months (unless I was racing, when I used my 110% jib against competition that was allowed a max jib of 130%). If your jib is BIG and it's very windy, you're over canvassed. Of course, you're gonna feel it, either unfurling or furling.

sail sfbay · May 5, 2021

quadrille38 said:
...............I am going to try to attach a picture............

quadrille38...................nice photos!! Thanks for sharing.

ice breaker · May 5, 2021

I appreciate the caution that people have expressed, but it works great. Just do not be an animal. In fact Selden offers an electrification option for both the jib and main. Too expensive, but it is offered. If memory serves the jib was about 3400 and the main was 7500. Not installed.

By having the furling line around the winch, the flogging sail is much easier to manage, as it does not get to fight back. I have had it rigged this way for 10 years.

quadrille38 · May 5, 2021

sail sfbay said:
quadrille38...................nice photos!! Thanks for sharing.

what I used was a bit more like a fiddle block than a true cam cleat mounted to the boat. but I’m having trouble finding one in the catalog. The boat splashes next week and when I’m there I will take an up close picture for you

Gotta love Amazon, I found it in my purchase history. It’s a Harken Carbo Ratchet Block. I added a snap shackle that I use to clip it to the arch. That way as I said it can be unclipped and moved so it’s not a trip hazard.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CSUXR78/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Agree with others that a true cam cleat isn’t the best as you’ll be pulling at a bad angle, leaning over the coaming to use it and I think if it releases unintentionally you could have problems. With this mechanism you keep the furling line straight and angle of pull is better. You stay in the cockpit. And no drilling or mounting required.

MFD · May 6, 2021

On my hunter 41DS the fuller line is led back to the arch and through a block there, then back up to the winch (if super windy and we left sail up too long, not ideal but it happens) and a smaller cam cleat a couple feet forward.

I ended up installing a new turning block off the arch that also includes a cam cleat. Generally it seems to run free when it needs to and we can pop the cam on/off reliably. It definitely helps, especially when single handing, to be able to pull in small sections just with that cam cleat and being free to do something else real quick and generally just not worry about line going back out by accident and having to keep holding on or tying it off. Then when all changes are made, it stays in that cleat and also gets tied off at the original one.

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Plan was to use the becket(?) with a little piece of shock card to keep it from flopping around but still haven't done it.