Anchor Rode for Southeast Alaska

jon hansen · Feb 9, 2021

how do you plan stowing all this weight and bulk? proper load management is a consideration you do not mention.
will all this weight be stowed below the waterline? will all this weight be stowed in the middle of the vessel. how many new batteries will this require to power? 600' of line. will you need a drum to wind this on so it does not tangle?

the boat came with what most would use on a 29' boat here on the great lakes. we don't need the chain up here. just dead weight to carry. no coral here.
all captains want to sleep at anchor. i get it. so many things to consider.

keep your load low!

jon hansen · Feb 9, 2021

all weight loaded above the waterline makes the boat more tender/tippy. makes for reefing more often and earlier. the ride suffers as well.

Captain Larry-DH · Feb 9, 2021

jon hansen said:
all weight loaded above the waterline makes the boat more tender/tippy. makes for reefing more often and earlier. the ride suffers as well.

+1. .. and the bow is the least buoyant. Ideal place for weight is low and centered, not in the ends. 600’ of wet nylon is not light.
IMHO with a 30’ moderate displacement boat, you should minimize chain and rode. I‘m not familiar with the Alaska coast, but 30-80’ is pretty deep. If you can find shallow anchorages you’ll have better holding, but you need adequate swinging room in the radius from where you place your anchor. (If the anchorage is protected you don’t need much water under your keel).

dLj · Feb 9, 2021

I can't answer your question without doing some homework. What are your tidal shifts up there? On your charts, what is the range of anchorage depths where yo uwill be going. Definitely 30 to 80 feet are deep anchorages - but I don't know what you have for sloping shorlines where you will be going. I know that the coast of Norway will have very deep anchorages and the slope of the shoreline is such that you can't have enough scope out for a good anchorage and that often what is done there is running very long lines to shore and then dropping a long anchor. That way you don't swing as you typically do off just the anchor. I don't know what's normally done in your area. I'd suggest you talk to other sailors in your area to find local knowledge on preferred anchoring techniques.

Given what you have said, I think I'd be more inclined to have something like 4 lengths of say 25 foot chain, keeping one of them with the anchor and being able to distribute the others in locations better suited for weight distribution and pull out lengths as needed for a speicific anchorage.

600 feet of rode - you'll need a roller to handle that effectively. I guy I know sailing in Norway that carries a horizontal roller that he puts in the back of his boat and that rode length (I think he carries about 1000 feet) is used to tie off to shore so his boat doesn't swing from his bow anchor.

As others have said, if you can anchor in less depth. That would be preferred.

dj

rgranger · Feb 9, 2021

Captain Larry-DH said:
(If the anchorage is protected you don’t need much water under your keel).

I have no firsthand experience sailing in Alaska but I understand they do have very drastic tidal ranges.

Where is the highest tide?

The highest tide in the world is in Canada.

oceanservice.noaa.gov

.

You may need 40+ feet under your keel if you drop the hook at high tide.... and you may need to pay our a lot of rode if you drop the hook at low tide.

Terry Cox · Feb 9, 2021

Over the years of anchoring in PNW waters I've use some basic rues of thumb with successful results.

1. Tide tables provide important information about ranges so keep informed before setting out.
2. Depending upon the selected anchorage, most will offer good conditions with mostly mud/sand bottom.
3. Mid tide, a depth of 20'-30' offers a dependable set with ample swing room.
4. Our 35,000 pound boat is equipped with a 40 pound Danforth anchor, 50' G4 5/16" chain and 150' of three strand nylon rope and a 20 pound lead kellet.
5. In normal conditions I'll pay out 110' of rode and increase to 140' if sour weather is in the forecast.

capta · Feb 9, 2021

One of the problems with anchoring in very deep or extremely cold water you can't see the bottom in, is that you can expect to lose your gear periodically. A lot of anchorages are rocky.
I'd be asking this question to the commercial fishermen in your area. There are a lot more of them than sailboats up that way.

dLj · Feb 9, 2021

rgranger said:
I have no firsthand experience sailing in Alaska but I understand they do have very drastic tidal ranges.

Where is the highest tide?

The highest tide in the world is in Canada.

oceanservice.noaa.gov

.

You may need 40+ feet under your keel if you drop the hook at high tide.... and you may need to pay our a lot of rode if you drop the hook at low tide.

Bay of Fundy is quite a long way from Alaska. It's between New Brunswick/Prince Edwards Island on the East coast of North America.

But, what the tides are where the OP is asking about I don't know.

I used to sail in a region where there were consistently tides in the 9 meter range (About 30 feet range) and there are tricks to anchoring with that kind of tidal change for sure...

dj

p.s. OK, I just read the WHOLE article you posted, and the tides in Alaska are referenced as the highest in the US... :facepalm:

capta · Feb 9, 2021

I'm from the Bay area where tides run about 6 to 8 feet, but after 5.5 years in the tropics, I'd kind of forgotten the whole unpleasant mess.
Anchored in the river at Bundaberg, Oz, 11 miles inland, water level wasn't much determined by tide, as I recall. Off we pop to Rockhampton and secure the dink to the wharf with what I thought should be plenty of line for a tide fall or rise. Well.........not exactly!
When we returned, the dink was hanging by her bow line, the motor about 8' from the water and the bow another 8' below where I stood. "Danger, Will Robinson!" "Danger."

rgranger · Feb 9, 2021

capta said:
I'm from the Bay area where tides run about 6 to 8 feet, but after 5.5 years in the tropics, I'd kind of forgotten the whole unpleasant mess.
Anchored in the river at Bundaberg, Oz, 11 miles inland, water level wasn't much determined by tide, as I recall. Off we pop to Rockhampton and secure the dink to the wharf with what I thought should be plenty of line for a tide fall or rise. Well.........not exactly!
When we returned, the dink was hanging by her bow line, the motor about 8' from the water and the bow another 8' below where I stood. "Danger, Will Robinson!" "Danger."

We regulary get a 6' swing here, sometimes more. My work place has a very nice boathouse with slips etc. But at low tide it is often mud. So... you have to time it. I wish they would dredge. I'd love to commute to work by boat.

Davidasailor26 · Feb 9, 2021

dLj said:
But, what the tides are where the OP is asking about I don't know.

Navionics shows up to 19’ or so in some parts of SE Alaska. Certainly different than where I anchor on the Chesapeake.

Stu Jackson · Feb 9, 2021

Why NEW GEN Anchors are Better:

Anchors & TEST Results of New Generation Anchors EXCELLENT & Important

Anchor System Sizing Tables (Reply #6) & Swivels Ground Tackle & Anchor System Sizing TABLES & Swivels

Steve’s Anchoring 101

The Rocna. All 20kg of it with 100ft of chain. The rest of the world can debate all they like. When I pull into a place like Bodega Bay at midnight and the fog is so thick I can't see the jetty 50 feet away to make an entrance, I drop my hook in the rolling ocean swells with the surf crashing (Foster says it's like staying in a cheap Best Western beside the highway), and I sleep. And in the morning I have a windlass to pull the beast up and I wouldn't trade it for anything. (I also wouldn't add more chain - this works perfectly in 25 to 30 feet of water - you let all the chain out and you tie off nylon at the preferred scope and don't bother with snubbers and chain hooks and all that stuff...)

jssailem · Feb 9, 2021

You are cruising and anchoring in Alaska not the Caribbean.

My way to analyze the challenge.
You need to consider the local conditions that you expect to sail in and then add a safety factor.

Do you expect to be regularly caught out in a 100ft deep (16 fathoms) bay over night in plus 50 knot winds?
If so based on your boat size and displacement weight you need an anchor one size bigger say a 35lbs Mantus or Rocna than one designed more for your boat like the 22 lb anchor you possess. Your anchor is geared for your size of boat in normal cruising conditions. Anchoring in less than 50 knot winds. I note that much of the bottom in the bays and inlets is listed a Mud or Sand/Mud. Best bottom to have for setting an anchor.

Now if your out on the water, and such adverse conditions surprise you, you are not getting any sleep. Your throwing out the anchor you have and siting in the cockpit with the engine running prepared to go to sea should the anchor start to drag. Your not looking too get anywhere just maintain your boat in the safest waters possible till the storm passes. You can do a lot to relieve the strain on the anchor if you take a little of the stress off the anchor system by powering into the storm at low RPM "Holding Station" at anchor.

Having 100 ft of chain and a 35lb anchor down 16 fathoms is a lot of weight to haul to the surface. I am sure you are young and capable, but you will be wearing out your back in no time. That is why if doing this manually you will want mostly rode and maybe 30 ft of chain. 200 ft of "rode" (rope). Nylon being the preferred material as it gives (stretches) absorbing the pull and strain meaning easier on the anchor and the boat.

3 strand twisted nylon will be least expensive. It tends to get twisted and not always lying flat.
Nylon Brait combines braiding technology with plaited rope
Double braid construction - nylon cover, nylon core

On my 35 ft 17000 lb displacement boat, I opted for 250 ft of Nylon Brait rode spliced onto my 100 ft of chain. Having installed an electric windlass and the powered system to run the windlass (which cost almost as much as the windlass) I have a 35lb Mantus anchor sized for my boat on the bow. This anchor system weighs in at about 145 lbs.

I have a 33 lb Bruce with chain and rode I can carry stowed near the keel. I will load a coil of 600 ft light line that will allow me to reach out and tie to a rock ashore when cruising north on the inside passage.

This also means you need to be careful in selecting your places to stop.

Here is a link to an aide. It is not everything but it can give you good info to help select the best anchorages available. DeepZoom Nautical Charts Tides and Currents
Slide the map up to your location. You'll get a NOAA chart of the area. The depths are in fathoms. Aprox 6ft to a fathom. With the wind in the right direction Sunny Cove in Taku Bay (apron 18nm from Juneau) looks like it could offer a nice overnight anchorage.

jssailem · Feb 9, 2021

Davidasailor26 said:
up to 19’ or so in some parts of SE Alaska.

Yes. Today there is an 19 ft tide change in Juneau harbor.

capta · Feb 9, 2021

rgranger said:
We regulary get a 6' swing here, sometimes more. My work place has a very nice boathouse with slips etc. But at low tide it is often mud. So... you have to time it. I wish they would dredge. I'd love to commute to work by boat.

Got a friend with a Mako or something that has a couple of good, big outboards on the back? Have him bring his boat in an hour after high tide and run his engines as the tide drops and he'll blow the mud out of the slips and it will float away on the ebb tide.
If you need more, then bring in a bigger boat and do the same until your slip is clear.

rgranger · Feb 9, 2021

capta said:
Got a friend with a Mako or something that has a couple of good, big outboards on the back? Have him bring his boat in an hour after high tide and run his engines as the tide drops and he'll blow the mud out of the slips and it will float away on the ebb tide.
If you need more, then bring in a bigger boat and do the same until your slip is clear.

I thought about putting out a small anchor and dragging it under power each time I leave the slip... but your way sounds like a lot more fun.

Maybe your friend could drag a big anchor...... :poop:

PaulK · Feb 9, 2021

Hi Patrick
My brother's been sailing out of Juneau on his J/30 for a long time. He sailed it up there from Seattle to start with. He cruises regularly up to Tracy Arm and goes around Admiralty Island, so is bound to have ideas about what works up there. He does not have a windlass. He suggests you join Southeast Alaska Sailing. I will pm you his phone number; he's expecting your call.

dLj · Feb 11, 2021

Patrick34 said:
Thanks everyone for the intell. Definitely been fun learning about all the different aspects of sailing, there’s a lot to think about.

Still would like to hear more opinions about the “nuts and bolts” of the set-up I’m contemplating purchasing for our cal 29 (8,000 lbs)

maxwell RC 6 or equivalent
100’ 1/4’ g4
Several hundred feet of 1/2” 8 plait
22lb Rocna

Does anyone have a similar setup for a similar size boat?

It depends upon how you are sailing. Are you going out for weekends, and potentially the occasional weeks vacation? Or will you take longer trips where you are sailing for several weeks at a time?

In the first case, the above doesn't look too bad. In the second case, I think I'd up the chain to 5/16". I think in both cases I'd want at least a second anchor. I carry 3 anchors on my current boat.

If you don't have problems with chafe on your anchor where you are sailing, I'd likely go with less chain and more rode. Lets see, 100 feet of 1/4" is about 63 pounds. 50 feet of 5/16" is about 47 pounds.

My inclination would be 50 feet of 5/16" chain, and then the rode I'd need for where I'm anchoring.

As far as the RC 6, I don't have first hand knowledge, but have heard those are nice winches.

All the above is worth exactly what you've paid for it...

dj

Anchor Rode for Southeast Alaska

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

.

.

.

.

.