Sail Rigging Questions - I have never sailed - 24ft Laguna Windrose

[Nunyadamn]

I posted before, other questions I had about the boat mast. I have more questions, obviously.
I have attached some pictures. Generally, as I said before, I have never sailed and due to covid I am stuck learning what I can by doing things the hard way and asking questions here.
I finally got my sails up, but I have questions...

I picked up that I have a roller boom, but it seems like a real pain to roll it up/down. Is it just bad engineering or am I missing something? I read another post where someone had it and I get that it is how the main sail is reef'd, and that the shape of the sail is probably not going to be that good when reef'd. I see that I can push the boom away from the mast and that allows it to roll, then it locks in when I push it toward the mast. Am I in the ballpark with all that so far?

When I bought the boat, the people showed me how to attach the boom to the back stay on this piece of wire that is attached to the back stay. Does it stay attached at all times when sailing? It doesn't seem like it will be able swing very far if it does stay attached, so I don't know why it would need the lines that attach to the bottom of the boom - sorry, that may not make sense, but I can't remember what that system is called at the back of the boom that goes down to both sides of the boat. I know it supposed to hold the boom from side to side, I just can't remember what it is called at this very moment. I am wondering if I am just supposed to use that wire attached to the back stay to get everything setup and then when the sail is raised, disconnect it from that wire.

Another question I have is, there is a line that attaches to the back of the sail at the clew. It doesn't seem like it pulls very hard on the sail, but I don't know if it is supposed to?

On the mast side of the boom, there is a small line attached to the tack. I used it to hold the boom down so when I raised the main sail, the boom stayed down, is this correct?

When I raise the main sail, it goes all the way up to the block at the top of the mast, is there supposed to be any gap between the main sail head and that block/pulley? I think I can move my boom down in the track if that is the case.

I can only upload 10 pictures at a time, so I will upload those and then post the rest I took last week. Thanks for any help...

 

[Nunyadamn]

 

[SailingLoto]

the wire your boom is hooked to on your rearstay is a tailing lift. it is just to hold your boom up when the sail is down.

your gooseneck apears to be upside down, the hole with the rope should be at the bottom. It is your downhaul. you run the main all the way up and then pull the boom down tight and tie the downhaul to the cleat below it.

The loop on the bottom of your boom partway back is for a boom vang, the other end attaches to the bottom the mast where you see the loop you see, second post, third pic.

your mast also doesn't appear to be vertical in that pic.

i hope that helps

 

[SailingLoto]

topping lift, not tailing lift.... my phone got me on that one...

i have a roller reefing boom as well. I am not a fan. It is very awkward. do not use it to store your sail.

the line pulling your sail down your boom is the outhaul. it should pull fairly snug.

 

[rgranger]

Are you sure that is a roller boom? It does not appear to have a rolling mech. at the gooseneck.

 

[Nunyadamn]

the wire your boom is hooked to on your rearstay is a tailing lift. it is just to hold your boom up when the sail is down.

your gooseneck apears to be upside down, the hole with the rope should be at the bottom. It is your downhaul. you run the main all the way up and then pull the boom down tight and tie the downhaul to the cleat below it.

The loop on the bottom of your boom partway back is for a boom vang, the other end attaches to the bottom the mast where you see the loop you see, second post, third pic.

your mast also doesn't appear to be vertical in that pic.

i hope that helps

topping lift, not tailing lift.... my phone got me on that one...

i have a roller reefing boom as well. I am not a fan. It is very awkward. do not use it to store your sail.

the line pulling your sail down your boom is the outhaul. it should pull fairly snug.

Thank you so much. I didn't know about the boom vang until I unrolled the boom with the sail attached. I also didn't know that the goose neck was upside down - note taken. That picture of my mast is very misleading. It is fully up, but that picture does make it look tilted. I still need to go through all of the standing rigging and tighten everything. The people I bought it from said it could sail the way it was, but some of the rigging seems too loose. I will work on that once I get to know how things are supposed to be first. So, the mast should go all the way up to the block/pully at the top with no space?

 

[Nunyadamn]

Are you sure that is a roller boom? It does not appear to have a rolling mech. at the gooseneck.

I know it rolls, there is a square plastic block that has a bolt going through it to the goose neck. I am able to pull the boom backwards and it releases and then will roll - by hand. I am surely not the expert, it just looks like one I saw on here and a video I saw on youtube. I just don't get the point of having it roll. Everyone says don't store the sail on it and it is a pain to use, why even have it? They could have saved themselves some engineering time/money and just used standard line/sail reefing systems that would be so much easier.

 

[SailingLoto]

the main sail should go most of the way up the mast when fully raised, maybe a foot bellow the masthead. The gooseneck should be just far enough bellow the notch in the sail track for the luff to not be in a bind. My gooseneck sits about 5-6" bellow the notch. I rarely mess with my downhaul. I set it initially, then it usually stays there and I just pull the halyard tight against it.

If you run a vang, then the roller reefing won't work. I personally do not use mine unless I absolutely have to reef, but that's pretty rare. I tend to sail on pleasant days.

 

[SailingLoto]

Are you sure that is a roller boom? It does not appear to have a rolling mech. at the gooseneck.

it's not the roller boom with a crank. you slide it aft and twist the boom. terrible design, but it works when needed.

I think it was more of a sales gimmick than truly functional.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

@Nunyadamn
There are a lot of questions and a lot of opinions some which will be the same response. I also applaud you for asking. However, would it be best to hire a sailor who teaches for a day or two? It would be a suggestion of mine as a former dealer

 

[SailingLoto]

@Nunyadamn
There are a lot of questions and a lot of opinions some which will be the same response. I also applaud you for asking. However, would it be best to hire a sailor who teaches for a day or two? It would be a suggestion of mine as a former dealer

I agree. Find someone with some experience to look it over and make sure it is rigged properly and to take you out the first couple times.

I know I could have benefited from that. I had to learn from books and videos. That being said, research and asking questions is a great idea.

Crazy Dave has already helped me a couple times. There are a lot of well educated and experienced people on this site.

 

[SailingLoto]

if you are totally unfamiliar with sailboats, get Sailing for Dummies.... it is very basic. half the book is totally pointless. it does do a decent job with rigging terminology, sailing terminology, and point of sail. It covers the very basic steps involved in tacking and jybing and is just enough to get you out on the water.

I fully support what you are doing by rigging it in your driveway. practice that several times before even attempting it at the boat ramp. It helps familiarize you with your boat and builds confidence. pick a very mellow day for your first sail, be patient.

I would have loved to have had a friend who was knowledgeable about sailing, but had to figure it out on my own.

it's a lot of common sense and basic physics.

 

[ebsail]

where is the boat. Maybe one of us is near ehough to give you a visit

 

[Joe]

A wire attached to the backstay that holds up the boom is NOT a topping lift. It's just a "pigtail" whose purpose is to support the boom when the sail is not up.... A topping lift will extend from the end of the boom up to a point hear the top of the mast. It is often adjustable, either like a halyard or via some apparatus at its lower end.

At the forward corner of the mainsail you should have a pin or a shackle to hold the sail in place... if there's an accommodation for an additional line, an "cringle" or hole a foot or so above the tack (corner) that might be for rigging a "cunningham" which is used to control tension on the leading edge of the sail (luff) that's helps its trim.

My neighbor had a roller boom on his boat that was useless. You don't need to modify the boom to rig a slab reef system. You can use the roller boom to store the sail... but it appears that a previous owner preferred a "vang" and has attached a fitting to the boom a few feet back that would allow for that very important control. So to store the sail wrapped around the boom you'd have to detach the vang.

 

[watercolors II]

Your roller reefing setup will work if only 2 or 3 rolls are done in the reefing process, any more would be disastrous. As suggested, learn to sail in winds under 15 mph, above 15 you will have to reef so, a study of what your mainsail should look like when reefed will be a large help after you learn how to sail.

To store your mainsail on the boom, just drop and bundle together in the smallest profile to the wind and lash to the top of the boom so the wind CAN NOT open any part and fill wind.

Do you have an outboard engine. Use this engine, it’s like having 2 or 3 extra crew, to drive the boat forward dead into the wind before raising or LOWERING with the back end of the boom attached to the backstay.

The outhaul line attached to the mainsail’s clew, running back and forth threw a couple blocks and jam cleated on the side of the boom, can be pulled so tight as to form stretch lines in the sail running parallel with the boom.

Your photo of the whole boat looking like the mast is not vertical is due to your camera lens distortion, look at the main entrance of the home behind the boat sloping to the right and the garage door of the home at the stern sloping to the left.

 

[Mr. Dave]

That large vang fitting is going to wreak havock on your sail if you roll it, especially if the wind is kicking, as in tear it to shreds kind of havock. Can't imagine you can roll the sail with that monstrous thing on the boom.

Did I miss what keeps the boom from spinning when you've rolled some sail on it? Awful lot of force trying to unroll it, also an awful lot of force required for you to roll a wind-loaded sail. You can't just grab the end of the boom and twist with even a light breeze in the sail, and if it's flogging in a big wind you could lose a finger. No, really.

We have a roller furling boom on our little 20 foot sloop, there's a block at the gooseneck with a worm gear, we have a special crank handle that fits into a socket in the block but wants to fall overboard, about a 10-1 advantage, so a whole lot of turns with the handle to get a single turn on the boom. On the plus side, we can reef in a 20 knot wind. The worm then keeps the boom from turning when the sail is loaded, which is the only time you'll ever want it reefed. It's a complete pain in the ass to unfurl ours while keeping the halyard taught while the sail flogs while keeping one hand for the winch handle and your other other hand for the boat.

Our vang fitting is a plate with a slot, the vang itself has a special key that fits into the slot, the plate is very low profile and doesn't damage the sail. You're not so lucky.

Looks like you have your sail rigged correctly at the tack, the way the sail filts into the slot of that "flamingo" fitting seems intentional; that fitting doesn't look like a downhaul to me. And the outhaul looks rigged correctly too.

Pigtail, rat tail, topping lift, whatever, that short line onto the backstay holds the end of the boom up when the sail isn't holding it up, but must be detached after you've raised sail, and reattached before you strike it. Running a proper topping lift to the masthead would be an easy spring project.

You should put an ad on Craigslist for a sailing buddy to show you the ropes, if there is even one other experienced sailor near you, they'll drink your beer and bend your ear as long as you'll let them. Have fun!

 

[Daveinet]

Ah yes, the Yard Sail. Once you get your rigging figured out, then start tugging on lines and see what it does to your sail shape. This will be useful, especially in light winds. (I'm guessing your first day out, you will try to go out on a light day) Something else you should do is invest in a tiller clutch or tiller tamer. This will be important to keep the boat going in the intended direction when you need to attend to the sails. I have an autopilot, but still use the tiller clutch in close quarters. Its just nice to be able to set the tiller and know its going to stay put. Especially when you are inexperienced, it is hard to predict what situation/emergency will come up that you need to leave your station.

 

[MikeyJ]

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I had a similar setup on a San Juan 21. I never used it for reefing the sail. I always trailered sailed so just rolled the sail up on the boom and threw it inside the boat.

 

[Orbweaver]

...Is it just bad engineering or am I missing something?

... how to attach the boom to the back stay on this piece of wire that is attached to the back stay. Does it stay attached at all times when sailing? ...

... I can't remember what that system is called at the back of the boom that goes down to both sides of the boat. I know it supposed to hold the boom from side to side, I just can't remember what it is called at this very moment. I am wondering if I am just supposed to use that wire attached to the back stay to get everything setup and then when the sail is raised, disconnect it from that wire....
. Thanks for any help...

1: Roller reefing seems to be a poor solution in search of a problem.
2: The pig tail is only used to keep the aft end of the boom up while the sail is down. Hoist the sail (pointed into the wind), then disconnect the pigtail. Leave it disconnected until you are ready to drop the main (reefing the main shouldn't require connecting it back up).
3: the other line connected at the aft end of the boom is your main sheet. I can't quite tell, but it looks like you have a carabiner type clip in the rigging there. That may be fine for the pigtail (low load), but I would not use that for the sheet. There is a bolt in there as well, and I'm not sure but that should probably removed, then use the quick fitting on the block to tie directly into the stainless steel strap bolted into the aft end of the boom.
I believe all the other questions have been answered.

Finally, welcome to sailing! You'll find that there are lots of opinions, and lots of answers. As captain, it's up to you to decide how your ship is run. And, I believe I've used that same name for several places that want an email, so if you happen to have nunyadamn@gmail.com......Yea. that was me.

 

[Nunyadamn]

Quick update - thank you to all that have answered my questions. My wife and I got the vaccine over the last couple months and then took a 5 day sailing course last week. It was a great experience. We stayed on board the five days - go out to learn in the morning to early afternoon each day and stay in the marina for the night in San Diego. We learned on a 30ft sailboat - private lessons with just my wife and myself. First time we have ever really left our daughters home by themselves (19 and 15), then went out to eat each night - strange taking off our masks at a restaurant to eat after more than a year of not dining out. Anyway, the classes were the ASA 101, 103 and 104. I should get an ASA number in about a month and then apply for some license - I forgot the details, but I am supposed to wait for the email from ASA with instructions.

I feel much better about my purchase and now have a much better idea of where things go and how to actually sail. We stopped into the West Marine and the San Diego Marine Exchange stores while we were there - I wish I lived closer because between those two stores I can't see ever needing to go anywhere else - they had everything you could think of. My local AZ West Marine is about 1/8 the size of either of those stores and has almost nothing for a sailboat.

I have been very skeptical of the 1999 Johnson 9.9, electric start, that came with my boat (throttle cable needs replacing, copper water pickup tube frozen inside the extension, a couple wires that have been relocated for the stop switch, cover worn down and has some raw fiberglass that itches me every time I touch it, etc), so I just bought a 2021 Tohatsu 9.8 long shaft, electric start, today. It will be the nicest part on the boat when I get it.

Without a doubt I will have more questions. Thanks again for the patience.