Found this boat online but very little to go off of information wise....... All I know is that it is "claimed" to be a 1964 model and it is 23ft long. Can anybody identify the make and model of this vessel? Thank you!
Identify this boat
- Thread starter Viipper98
- Start date
I'm looking for serious replys only. I'm aware the boat is a wreak but I also have a high degree of electrical/ mechanical/ and reconstruction aptitude and I like a challenge and appreciate the end result and increased familiarity with the end result that I put the effort into. So once again please serious replys only. Thank you.
Cant id brand but it has obviously had a flooded cockpit with the inevitable core rot and delamination. This isn't a fixer but rather a complete rebuild which will cost more in materials than the value if done right.
dave is prolly the most serious sailor of the bunch. he was not joking. you want to learn, OK, start learning. the cockpit is the most important place on a boat. it's where the owner/skipper spends all his time. that cockpit looks very uncomfortable. no room for anyone else. the boat shows signs of flooding. that era vessel has plywood in it. so thats toast. the vessel looks to be a very slow sailing design. some people like slow. do you? i don't.
so you want serious, i mean dead serious. here it comes. ready: run, don't walk, away from that wreck.
jon
so you want serious, i mean dead serious. here it comes. ready: run, don't walk, away from that wreck.
jon
The basic style is pretty similar to a Tartan 27, but it is a little small for that. The basic design with a 2 step cabin top was found in several boat styles, Columbia was one. I don't think it is a Columbia 24, but looks a little like one.
In the forum world we frequently get questions similar to the OPs. The idea of a free or cheap boat and fixing it up is appealing. However, in reality it seldom works out that way. The damage is extensive and the time, effort, and expense to bring a boat like this back to a passable safe condition is just isn't worth it. There are boats all over boat yards and in fields where the dream went to die. This is one of those boats. Spend your time, energy, and money on something that has not decayed as far as this one.
I don’t know the brand either and can’t find any pictures that match. The rudder post is pretty distinctive - many boats of that era had keel hung rudders with the rudder post angled opposite the one on the picture. Things like portholes could be moved around by previous owners but that seems unlikely with a whole rudder post and tube. I was thinking maybe a Pearson or similar Alberg design but none of them line up.
In any case, I do tend to agree with some of the others that this one is past the point of no return. I get that you’re happy to undertake a project, but unless the project itself is your only aim there are better options. Any boat of that era will give you plenty of projects and chances to repair and improve. Starting with one whose foundation is as poor as this one, with the core rot and other uses Jon describes, is unnecessarily challenging.
In any case, I do tend to agree with some of the others that this one is past the point of no return. I get that you’re happy to undertake a project, but unless the project itself is your only aim there are better options. Any boat of that era will give you plenty of projects and chances to repair and improve. Starting with one whose foundation is as poor as this one, with the core rot and other uses Jon describes, is unnecessarily challenging.
I have no idea either but that topside design is a poor use of space. It looks like a solo sailor cockpit. Is that your plan?There are better projects out there.
I do not know how you know that the boat is in that bad of shape from 3 external pictures. A lot of those older hulls are 100% glass below the deck joint and have very Spartan interiors that are pretty easy to redo. The gel coat is trashed but paint only takes a few weekends.
I understand the work involved I re-fit a Dehler 25 and a C&C Mega 30 OD both were in really bad shape, especially the Dehler. Every piece of wood was replaced and every foot of wire was replaced. I do not regret it at all. It is not the cheapest option to re-fit but I enjoy the work and now I know exactly what my boat is made from. Of course a detailed inspection before you start is important. Fiberglass, wood and paint are cheap hardware and sails are not.
JJ
prolly has to do with the fact that the boat is b*tt ugly. do the entire refit and what do you have? not a dehler 25 0r a C&C mega 30, oh no. you have the boat in the picture.
this is a kittywake, nice boat. close, but the cabin trunk is shorter.
built by ray green, the father of fiberglass boats. built in toledo
Often, too often, less educated beginners believe that boats from the early days, like the 60's, are somehow better because they are supposedly "thicker". This has been thoroughly debunked on this site and others where designers and surveyors check in. Repeat: there is no special 'magic' in a resin-rich hull with way too much matting in it, or like some lower end boats a chopper gun layup.
(sigh)
That said, some boats from those days, well designed by talented NA's, and then built to the higher standard that upper end builders could build to... are well regarded. And remain beautiful.
Enough that a restoration will pay off in admiration and smiles. And, that said, very few will sail as well as later designs, again from good NA's, will sail that were designed in the 70's and closer to the present.
If you just want to do a restoration on a free-to-you hull, there are better platforms out there.
Final caution: it costs more to rebuild a poor boat than one that originally had excellent scantlings.
Never forget the advice of the aged Knight to Indy: "Choose wisely"
Jon, that Kitiwake is one beautiful boat!
(sigh)
That said, some boats from those days, well designed by talented NA's, and then built to the higher standard that upper end builders could build to... are well regarded. And remain beautiful.
Enough that a restoration will pay off in admiration and smiles. And, that said, very few will sail as well as later designs, again from good NA's, will sail that were designed in the 70's and closer to the present.
If you just want to do a restoration on a free-to-you hull, there are better platforms out there.
Final caution: it costs more to rebuild a poor boat than one that originally had excellent scantlings.
Never forget the advice of the aged Knight to Indy: "Choose wisely"
Jon, that Kitiwake is one beautiful boat!
Thank you all for your replys and insight. That is what I was really looking for as an end result. To get enough info about the boat and construction to determine if refitting/repairing this boat was "doable" I usually prefer to start with make and model and research it from there. Given the responses and suggestions I've decided to pass on this vessel. I thank you all for your guidance and advice and will move on to something with much more going for it.
I think this is the best advice. A basket case re-fit is not cheap and it takes a lot of hours. Doing it just because the boat was cheap to acquire would be stupid. Re-fit something you would be proud to own. Also it takes the same dollars and hours to refit a boat worth $500 when you are finished as a boat worth $5,000 when finished choose wisely.prolly has to do with the fact that the boat is b*tt ugly. do the entire refit and what do you have? not a dehler 25 0r a C&C mega 30, oh no. you have the boat in the picture.
My point was just that Gel coat and a flooded interior wouldn't scare me off if I liked that boat. Missing main sheet tackle or a sail probably would. For the price of a new sail I could pretty much rebuild that boat if I didn't have to buy any hardware. (Big guess as I haven't seen the rest)
I decided I wanted a Mega a year before I found one to buy. I chose the boat make then looked for one because of the speed, size, interior, and the trailerability features. My wife is claustrophobic and I wanted to race a trailerable boat there are not a lot of options with large interiors that are fast and trailerable. I really wanted a F28R or a F31 but wifey said no way she could even go inside the cabin.
JJ
Looks like a chris Craft. We had one at the club. Not a bad sailer, and a really thin fin with bulb on the bottom. Nicknamed "muffin top" for the tall house. Lol
Fair question.
- The overall appearance of the boat suggests years of neglect.
- Take a look a the waterline. The staining suggests the boat has been partially submerged.
- The companion way boards. These are obviously in a poor state of repair and open.
- The interior is likely covered by mold and mildew because of the high moisture content due to the partial sinking.
- Any and all soft goods, like cushions, vinyl coverings, are ruined due to the moisture and mildew and mold.
- Bulkheads are likely rotted because of the partial flooding.
- Any interior trim is likely damaged from mildew and mold.
- The starboard side hull/deck joint has been damaged, notice the aluminum trim that is bent and missing near the chain plate.
- On a boat this old and neglected, it almost goes without saying all the running rigging needs to be replaced.
- Part of the starboard toe rail is missing. The rest looks to be in very rough shape.
- The standing rigging will probably need replacing.
- Even on older boats with solid GRP hulls the decks were cored with balsa or plywood because of the large flat expanses. I would be extremely surprised to find these decks to be dry. Thus large areas of the deck will need to be rebuilt.
If this was a classic boat, say a Pearson Ensign, a Cape Dory, an Allied Yachts built boat, then it might well be worth the money, time, and effort. These boats have a timeless beauty and still have followers. This boat is not one of those boats. A few years back, Paul Calder (Nigel's Son) restored a Cape Dory 28 that was in very rough condition. Some of his efforts were documented in Sail Magazine. For a small initial out lay and lots of blood, sweat, and treasure, he ended up with a well built, well designed classic boat. He was young and had access to resources many of us don't have. His efforts served him well.
If the OPs goal is to gain some experience with boat repair and restoration, a neglected day sailor in the 15-20 foot range would be a good start, especially if he can find one that still has an active class association. The O'Day Day Sailor, Flying Scot, and Lightening quickly come to mind as good starting points. There are lots of these boats in backyards and fields looking to avoid the landfill.
Johnsonjay17, thank you for the detailed insight you have provided. More than that thank you for the suggestions you provided for starting points I find that very helpful. I decided to pass on that boat for the reasons presented by the other replys. Seems like a good boat to stay clear of. So I'll start looking for the ones you suggested and proceed forward.
