OPINION : CAPE DORY 36 VS. NIAGRA 35 OR OTHER....IS A FULL KEEL AND SKEG RUDDER THE BEST OPTION ??
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But how much substantive difference is there between an Island Packet 36 and a Cape Dory 36, or an Albert 37 or an Endeavour 37 or a Pearson 38 ??...And is it really worth the additional HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS that you'll pay for and IP ??....I personally don't think so
Have you gone aboard one? See for yourself. For one thing, they are typically cutter-rigged although the CD and Endeavor may also be.
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While I love Cape Dory's, they are old boats now. The low price reflects the fact that you will spend more after the purchase getting it ready for your Caribbean trip. I would allow at least $20,000 over the first 12 months of ownership.
I've owned both full keel and bolt on keel boats. I didn't consider that a significant buying factor.
A bigger concern I'd have about the Niagra is it has a balsa core below the waterline. Just too risky in an old boat that may have had less than great owners who didn't know that you can't just drill a hole and slap on a little caulk in a balsa cored boat.
I do think a skeg or attached rudder is a safety factor if you will be sailing far from home.
I expect it is out of your price range but I would look at a Shannon 37 or 38 too.
I've owned both full keel and bolt on keel boats. I didn't consider that a significant buying factor.
A bigger concern I'd have about the Niagra is it has a balsa core below the waterline. Just too risky in an old boat that may have had less than great owners who didn't know that you can't just drill a hole and slap on a little caulk in a balsa cored boat.
I do think a skeg or attached rudder is a safety factor if you will be sailing far from home.
I expect it is out of your price range but I would look at a Shannon 37 or 38 too.
Be more specific.....and yes I have..... Are they nice boats ?....Yes....Am I gonna pay an extra Hundred Thousand Dollars to own one ??.....Noooooo.
That is for you do. You asked for opinion; now you have one (some). (Note the “OR OTHER“ in your query.) Affordability is a different question for you alone to decide.Be more specific.....and yes I have..... Are they nice boats ?....Yes....Am I gonna pay an extra Hundred Thousand Dollars to own one ??.....Noooooo.
Yeah. Even a $100,000 can start to disappear pretty fast if the boat has to go into the yard.
No....they're not out of my price range....buts it's like a car.....I mean - if I need to get from point A to Point B safely and enjoy the ride...do I really need a Maserati ??.....a Porsche ??....a Rolls ??....won't a Buick or a Chevy get me there just as well ??
.....to me there just has to be some logic for me to plop down all that additional cash....is the safety greater ??...is the strength greater ??....or is it just the WOW factor and the prestige of being a member of the kool aid club.....it's the logical / design factors that I look atDon't get me wrong - I love the IP's...... I'm just not gonna waste money on luxury items I don't needThat is for you do. You asked for opinion; now you have one (some). (Note the “OR OTHER“ in your query.) Affordability is a different question for you alone to decide.
No.....wrong again....I've owned 34 foot Silvertons my entire life and grew up on my dad's Silverton....but that's on the power side.... We're talking sailboats here
The ever popular question, "Which boat is better A or B for (fill in the purpose)? Almost always come from inexperienced sailors and dreamers. If you head over to CruisersForum.com, hardly a week goes by that someone doesn't ask which boat is better for cruising or which boats are "true bluewater boats." The ensuing discussion almost always ends up being a debate about fin vs full keels, heavy displacement vs light, this brand vs that brand, etc etc. It becomes a discussion akin to which is better, vanilla or chocolate ice cream? Lots of opinions, lots of options, and no conclusions.
In reality most any boat of a decent size that is not "built to a price" or a "lot of boat for the money" is capable of sailing to the Caribbean and back without incident.
Another reality is the discussion about keels and rudders, displacement and hull design are mildly interesting but do not address the most important point, livability and safety below. Long distance cruising, meaning a day or more at sea at a time, or long term coastal cruising means living at 20° in a rocking and rolling environment. Unlike day sailing a lot of time is spent below decks, it is below decks where the rubber meets the metaphorical road. Some factors to consider:
Handholds: walk below, what can you hang onto when the boat is bouncing around at 20°? Many big name production boats have a dearth of hand holds.
Storage: Clothing, food, spare parts, tools, safety gear all take up room where will you store 3 months of food?
Tankage: How much water can be carried? Fuel? Gray water and blackwater? Is there a water maker?
Energy: Everything takes power, refrigeration, lighting, VHF, entertainment devices, water makers, the list goes on. How much electricity can be stored and generated? How is it generated?
Galley: Can it be safely used underway? Is the stove gimbaled? Is there a safety strap for the cook? Can pots and pans and dinnerware be stored safely and accessibly? Where's the sink? Does the galley location affect traffic flow? What kind of fuel is used? Alcohol? CNG? Kerosene? LPG? Just a few of the many questions to ask.
The Head: This is a critical place. Too large and you bounce around and using the facilities becomes difficult. Too small and you are sitting on an undersized toilet seat with your knees in your chin. Try using TP in that position. Is there a shower, if so where does it drain? is there a wet locker or at least hooks for foul weather gear?
These are the most important issues to consider when looking for a long distance cruising boat. Experienced cruising sailors understand these issues, why they focus on boat hull, rudder, and keel design instead of the characteristics that make a real tangible difference in the experience and safety I do not know. Those discussions do little to prepare the neophyte, inexperienced sailor for life at sea.
Before considering which boat to buy, the neophyte should spend lots of time reading Lin and Larry Pardey's books, Beth Leonard's books John Kretchsmer, and the many books written by competent experienced sailors about life at sea. There are some YouTube channels that realistically portray the cruising life, check out Sailing Uma, Ryan and Sophie Sailing, Adventures of a Sea Dog.
When the neophyte does his or her homework, the questions asked are answerable in a meaningful way and will recive meaningful and relevant answers.
So, for all you neophytes and dreamers, do your homework before you ask unanswerable and naive questions. The experience and knowledge you will tap into will more valuable and useful.
And just for grins, go over to Sailing Anarchy and post this question in the same manner (all caps).
Then duck!
In reality most any boat of a decent size that is not "built to a price" or a "lot of boat for the money" is capable of sailing to the Caribbean and back without incident.
Another reality is the discussion about keels and rudders, displacement and hull design are mildly interesting but do not address the most important point, livability and safety below. Long distance cruising, meaning a day or more at sea at a time, or long term coastal cruising means living at 20° in a rocking and rolling environment. Unlike day sailing a lot of time is spent below decks, it is below decks where the rubber meets the metaphorical road. Some factors to consider:
Handholds: walk below, what can you hang onto when the boat is bouncing around at 20°? Many big name production boats have a dearth of hand holds.
Storage: Clothing, food, spare parts, tools, safety gear all take up room where will you store 3 months of food?
Tankage: How much water can be carried? Fuel? Gray water and blackwater? Is there a water maker?
Energy: Everything takes power, refrigeration, lighting, VHF, entertainment devices, water makers, the list goes on. How much electricity can be stored and generated? How is it generated?
Galley: Can it be safely used underway? Is the stove gimbaled? Is there a safety strap for the cook? Can pots and pans and dinnerware be stored safely and accessibly? Where's the sink? Does the galley location affect traffic flow? What kind of fuel is used? Alcohol? CNG? Kerosene? LPG? Just a few of the many questions to ask.
The Head: This is a critical place. Too large and you bounce around and using the facilities becomes difficult. Too small and you are sitting on an undersized toilet seat with your knees in your chin. Try using TP in that position. Is there a shower, if so where does it drain? is there a wet locker or at least hooks for foul weather gear?
These are the most important issues to consider when looking for a long distance cruising boat. Experienced cruising sailors understand these issues, why they focus on boat hull, rudder, and keel design instead of the characteristics that make a real tangible difference in the experience and safety I do not know. Those discussions do little to prepare the neophyte, inexperienced sailor for life at sea.
Before considering which boat to buy, the neophyte should spend lots of time reading Lin and Larry Pardey's books, Beth Leonard's books John Kretchsmer, and the many books written by competent experienced sailors about life at sea. There are some YouTube channels that realistically portray the cruising life, check out Sailing Uma, Ryan and Sophie Sailing, Adventures of a Sea Dog.
When the neophyte does his or her homework, the questions asked are answerable in a meaningful way and will recive meaningful and relevant answers.
So, for all you neophytes and dreamers, do your homework before you ask unanswerable and naive questions. The experience and knowledge you will tap into will more valuable and useful.
And just for grins, go over to Sailing Anarchy and post this question in the same manner (all caps).
Then duck!
My dear Wormwood sir.....Baloney !!
. ...... how much bluewater experience do you actually have ?? ...... it can't possibly be much when you ignore the absolutely critical issues of hull strength, keel selection, standing Rigging strength / condition and engine condition - none of which you mention in your simulacra discussion....consequently dude - the neophyte and the faker / is certainly not me and is most likely somebody else......liveability and safety below are all there on any bluewater boat......the items you mention lie more on the cosmetic side of the spectrum and, quite frankly - on the more cosmic ( dreamer ) side of the spectrum......You misunderstood my question......and no - head size and gimbled stove capacity are certainly NOT top critical issues as you suggest...... opinions are like *********'s sir and apparently I very well may be talking to one. 
Island Packets are no Maserati. Construction quality is similar to Cape Dory. Here's a 1989 Island Packet with an asking of $69k. And a 1983 Cape Dory 36 with asking $69k. The Island Packet 35 is considerably bigger than the Cape Dory 36 - 12ft beam instead of 10ft beam - and somewhat newer. Looking at the listings, I sure don't see any $100k premium for Island Packets of similar age and condition.
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To be fair, your thread title explicitly asked for opinions.My dear Wormwood sir.....Baloney !!
As for dlochner's reply - I think you should consider his points more seriously. I'm not as much in the "old full keel design" camp as some, but I'd hardly consider handholds, storage, tankage, and a usable galley as cosmetics.
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