Main sheet cleat location

[jonelli]

Hey all, just curious, but I realized after fixing a lost shackle on my main sheet cleat, that my setup may not be like everyone else’s. I posted in the FB group and got some confused responses. I guess I never thought to look at anyone else’s Cat30 setup. My boat came this way when I got it.
the main sheet is run backwards from what I believe the default way is. Instead of running down the mast to all the blocks and deck cleats, the end runs the other way down to the end of the boom and hangs right over the pedestal always within arms reach.

I kind of like it now that I know others have it on the deck? (Is that right?)
the only time it gets in the way is when the cockpit table is open and there’s food out. I have to loosely lay it over the pedestal.

the way my setup is seems very easy for single handed. The only time I have to go forward is to adjust the traveler.

does anybody else have a setup like this or did my previous owner come up with this on their own?

here’s a pic of the cleat block at the end of the boom.

 

[weekendrken]

Isn’t that tough to sheet in tight without a winch? And what do you do with the traveler?

It’s kinda the same as the old boom end sheeting from the tiller-steered c30s. You can see a picture of that over on the official IC30A forum. It might work better for you than how you have it, but you’d lose the traveler or would need to mount one aft. End sheeting is how I’d say the majority of other makes are, at least the ones I’ve crewed/raced on. Usually the sheet and traveler are right in front of the pedestal so the main trimmer is between the driver and Genoa trimmers.
Of course you couldn’t have it that way if you raced.

What’s your boat info?

 

[jonelli]

Mine is an ‘87 mkII. I have a rigid vang.
I don’t find it hard at all to sheet it tight.
the traveler is run to a cleat on each side of the companionway. I have to go there to adjust it. But I can grab and adjust the main sheet from the wheel.
Here’s the only pic I found on my phone that you can see it clearly. You can see the two traveler lines left/right of the companionway.

 

[Joe]

Talk about your rube goldberg solution. But as long as it works for you, why change it? You can easily view other setups by taking a look at Catalina 30's for sale listings.... or just google "mainsheet mid boom configurations". There's plenty out there. FYI... it's called "mid boom sheeting" where the traveler runs on a bridge across the cabin top. It's popular in that it gives more room in the cockpit. The alternative is "end boom sheeting".... which gives the boom more leverage with the extra length and more positive response because fewer blocks, i.e. less friction, are required.

I think the previous owner was looking for an inexpensive way to get the mainsheet control line back to the helm so he could stay behind the wheel.... There are other more conventional ways of doing that but you'd need some more hardware on the deck.

 

[jonelli]

I guess you could say I have a mid-boom sheet on the boom end.
I really don't hate it, it works well, and yes, it's really easy solo. It's always within arms reach.

 

[weekendrken]

So what do you do with the sheet if on a run or a beam reach’

 

[jonelli]

So what do you do with the sheet if on a run or a beam reach’

Let it out or pull it in like normal.

 

[jonelli]

For the most part, during the most common angles that the boom sits, you can just pull on it and it will release to let out. More extreme angles require a little flick or step forward to cleat it. It works really well.

 

[jonelli]

This is my basic setup:

 

[jssailem]

Observations.
We use blocks to ease the operation of our work To reduce the effort we place blocks in places and in numbers so that when we pull the line the blocks multiply the force reducing the effort.

Boom rigging is normally end of boom or mid boom. There are advantages and disadvantages both ways.

End of boom.

1. Force is applied to the boom end which is a strong point on the boom less risk of boom breakage
2. The force applied is spread over the whole boom and uses the leverage at the goose-neck against the mast.
3. All forces are applied in singular angle, so effort is conserved.
4. One draw back a 6 block cascade requires a lot of line as line must run from the boom to the deck over the entire arc of the booms travel

Mid Boom

1. Gets the main-sheet out over the cabin deck out of the cockpit
2. Less interference with the crew in the cockpit.
3. Puts the force on the boon in the middle, a weaker location on the boom. Boom needs to be more substantial to handle the forces.
4. Requires controls further away from the helm
5. Higher effort required as mid boom has force of the wind beyond the main-sheet attachment to the boom.
6. Attachments to the boom are necessarily spread out along the boom to prevent the boom from breaking.
7. The locations of the blocks creates an angular moment to the line reducing the efficiency of the blocks
8. Main-sheet trimming affects sail twist as pulling in on the sheet draws the mid boom down wards reducing the sail twist / acting like a vang.

Just a few thoughts. I favor the end boom setup on my boat. I put up with the cockpit lines and the long main-sheet.

Practical Sailor has a glimpse at the differences in their blog.

End boom vs. mid-boom sheeting - Practical Sailor

Since 1974, Practical Sailor’s independent testing has taken the guesswork out of boat and gear buying.

www.practical-sailor.com

 

[jonelli]

@jssailem - I don't think my setup can be called an end-boom sheeting system because it's still a mid-boom rig as far as the physics are concerned, just the cleat and bitter end at the end of the boom.

 

[Joe]

Honestly, and this is just my opinion, I don't like the fact that each mainsheet adjustment will affect the boom end before you realize any purchase advantage, allowing a degree of sloppiness in the array which leads to inaccurate leech tension (twist) adjustment. In practice, it is more desirable to use the traveler rather than the mainsheet when making angle of attack adjustments(apparent wind direction changes). Your current setup discourages that because the traveler control lines are inconveniently cleated well forward, out of reach, and this inevitably leads to an inconsistently trimmed mainsail. Bottom line is you can change this setup to something more conventional if you want.... but I doubt that you'll find any converts to your system in this group. No offence... but you did ask for opinions. Have fun no matter what.

 

[jonelli]

You’re right on one account. I probably don’t adjust the sheet as much as I adjust the traveler for my typical use. So, then why keep it this way? I have been solo sailing back and forth from Catalina, and if I needed to let the main out quickly, that would be one reason the keep it. All the other reasons are as you said. probably if no consequence.
But I don’t use the main sheet as you described either. I don’t use it to adjust angle of attack. I use it more for sail shape.

 

[Capt jgw]

Well it does look different. Maybe a PO when he bought the boat found the blocks and coil of line in the cabin and had to figure out how it worked. He figured out a way, just not the way it was designed. If it works, it works.

 

[jonelli]

Pretty certain it was intentional. My boat had almost one owner before me. The second owner had her for 6 months, hauled and painted, then the family wanted a bigger one. I don’t think the second owner did it. Probably because of what jssailem said, he just wanted it within reach.

 

[jssailem]

What is it like to pull the main in with the main sheet, when you get the wind blowing say 15knts. I suspect it is fairly easy to release and let the sheet out. My sense is as you pull the sheet in you are pulling almost like hauling the boom as if no blocks are there. But as you pull line in the blocks on boom help to hold it in place and may even flatten the sail in the process.

That just looks to me like what would happen. Can you share more of the experience and how the sail reacts as you trim with the main sheet.

 

[Joe]

You’re right on one account. I probably don’t adjust the sheet as much as I adjust the traveler for my typical use. So, then why keep it this way? I have been solo sailing back and forth from Catalina, and if I needed to let the main out quickly, that would be one reason the keep it. All the other reasons are as you said. probably if no consequence.
But I don’t use the main sheet as you described either. I don’t use it to adjust angle of attack. I use it more for sail shape.

Just to clarify, in my comment the mainsheet is not used for angle of attack adjustments, but to control leech tension (twist). When the boom swings outside the cockpit and range of the traveler, you use the vang to control twist and the mainsheet becomes your angle of attack adjuster. If you single hand a lot, then can I make a suggestion or two? I would re route the mainsheet to its original configuration... flipping it around to go forward to the mast base, then turn it to the outside and run it back down to a cleat or secondary winch near the helm. The previous owner probably changed it because he thought the mainsheet and vang blocks would interfere with each other at the base... but if you look at other boats you'll be able to see how that situation can be avoided.

Regarding the traveler, I would move the cam cleats from the track end blocks to the top of the rear cabin bulkhead. If the lines are long enough on the cockpit bench so they are near the helm. Now you can snap the lines in and out of the cam cleats from a distance. With crew present, coil the traveler control lines up and stow them on the bulkhead, they'll still be within easy reach for anyone sitting nearby. The changes may require punching a hole in the base of the dodger .. but the key is to get the cleats closer to the cockpit. You could even set up the vang to extend back to the helm..it's really handy to be able to pop the vang to keep the boom from going in the water on a broach.
Finally, I encourage you to look at other boats, do google searches and check the hardware manufacturer's websites for ideas on how to improve your sail handling gear to fit your needs. It's fun.