Insurance question (yawn) ...

[Scott T-Bird]

Thunderbird is insured with Boat US / Geico, so I called them directly for a quote on Catalina 320 (1999). Customer service person on the phone did not seem particularly dialed in to sailboat insurance and boat ownership issues (just a feeling I got from the way she asked questions). Questions came at me in sort of an unnatural, formatted manner. Maybe that was just my impression. I'd never been asked this question before … "Do you race the boat?" My first reaction was to answer no (since I don't even own the boat yet). Then, being the honest guy that I am, I said I probably will but maybe only a couple of times in a season in a very informal venue. So she said, then the answer is yes. I said, I guess so - I've never been asked this before - it's not like I bought this boat for racing.

Then, she put a value on the boat that is $20,000 less than the average that I calculated for about 15 boats on the east coast that are the exact same model, within a 5 year age window. When I gave here that info, she put me on hold for a while and then provided a quote for "agreed value" based on purchase price. The quote seemed pretty high to me (over $1,100). Deductible starts at 2% of boat value. I didn't pay over the phone. Instead I asked to study the quote before paying. I don't see any provision for "racing" in the quote. I'm wondering if my answer caused the quote to jump, or if it is the "agreed value". Any insight?

 

[jviss]

So, you bought the boat?

 

[Stu Jackson]

I'm insured with BoatUS, never asked about racing, and it's been 22 years. Something sounds very fishy, Scott, and I think your sensitivity meter is correct. I'll go read my policy.

 

[sailme88]

The racing question is a means of declination and or premium enhancement. The fact of the matter is that any 2 sailboats on the same course IS a race.. They concern is tacking duel in close quarters and the obvious possibility of a " BUMP"...

We have comprehensive coverage. Our annual premium is $516.00 before our 20% rebate. This is for a 6 month period ( May -Oct).

You may want to inquire as to the length of commissioning... More time in the water = more premium. It is possible that the person quoted you a 12 month in the water rate..

 

[dlochner]

Did you call GEICO or BoatUS? If you called GEICO directly you may not have talked a person who is knowledgeable about boat insurance, just a general agent.

Read the quote carefully. Is it Agreed Hull Value?

Typically the survey will include a value estimate that you can use to negotiate the AHV.

My experience with insurance cost finds the cost roughly 1% of Agreed Hull Value. As you probably know, BoatUS/Geico has a declining deductible, did the agent mention this?

Did you buy Andante?

 

[Scott T-Bird]

It seemed that the "agreed value" stipulation stimulated a request for "in-water" survey. I said I had a "dry" survey performed and have plans for "in water" at a later date. So she said that I should send the survey but it wasn't necessary immediately. The quote indicates that the survey will be required before coverage is effective and I should also provide a written action plan to address the recommendations. Recommendations are pretty minor, so the action plan will be to immediately address the various boo-boos when we take possession. Seller and I agreed on a small price reduction to expedite the transaction.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

My experience with insurance cost finds the cost roughly 1% of Agreed Hull Value. As you probably know, BoatUS/Geico has a declining deductible, did the agent mention this?

Yes, and the cost is almost 2% of agreed value. That's why I was surprised.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

The racing question is a means of declination and or premium enhancement. The fact of the matter is that any 2 sailboats on the same course IS a race.. They concern is tacking duel in close quarters and the obvious possibility of a " BUMP"...

We have comprehensive coverage. Our annual premium is $516.00 before our 20% rebate. This is for a 6 month period ( May -Oct).

You may want to inquire as to the length of commissioning... More time in the water = more premium. It is possible that the person quoted you a 12 month in the water rate..

It is a 12-month term, with "customary lay-up period for your area". Coverage is for all inland and coastal waters in U.S. & Canada.

If the price difference is more than a few hundred, I would simply not enter a race, but I don't find any mention of this question in the application form, so I am very confused about why it was asked.

 

[walmsleyc]

The racing question is usually targeted at motor boats.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

The racing question is usually targeted at motor boats.

That's pretty much the way I interpreted the question, too! That's why it really took me by surprise.

 

[dlochner]

Yes, and the cost is almost 2% of agreed value. That's why I was surprised.

After last year's hurricane season, the insurance companies took a beating, so a premium increase is not unexpected. My BoatUS/Geico policy is 90K agreed hull value, 500K liability and unlimited towing, for about $900, same coverage area you have, except I am located on Lake Ontario which may have an effect, and my policy won't renew until October, so I may seen an increase then.

 

[Ken Cross]

The quote indicates that the survey will be required before coverage is effective and I should also provide a written action plan to address the recommendations. Recommendations are pretty minor, so the action plan will be to immediately address the various boo-boos when we take possession. Seller and I agreed on a small price reduction to expedite the transaction.

Our BoatUS (Geico) policy never wanted to see a copy of our survey (Even though I paid for one). it's a 1989 Hunter 30G. Since the Admiral pays the bills, I'm not sure what our rate is. They did ask if we race and I said no.

Ken

 

[sailme88]

The racing question is a means of declination and or premium enhancement. The fact of the matter is that any 2 sailboats on the same course IS a race.. They concern is tacking duel in close quarters and the obvious possibility of a " BUMP"...

We have comprehensive coverage. Our annual premium is $516.00 before our 20% rebate. This is for a 6 month period ( May -Oct).

You may want to inquire as to the length of commissioning... More time in the water = more premium. It is possible that the person quoted you a 12 month in the water rate..

My brother suffered a significant rate increase. Took him a while to get to the bottom of it. Apparently he had co-signed for a loan for his son. The son got behind... My brother took a credit rating hit. The insurance carrier routinely draws credit reports on their insured. Because of the down turn in the credit report, the insurer jacked the rate....

 

[jssailem]

Scott. I would call back to BoatUS which will connect you to the Boat Insurance department. I had to do a self survey when I first insured the 1974 boat. Bill is about $500 a year for a declared value policy.

They asked more about boat handling experience than racing. Pretty sure the racing is "weekly competition" than the occasional 2 local yacht club runs about the bay a year. No question high level racing will put more risk on the boat. It also should bring about a greater level of skill by the racers. What competitive racers dislike (my opinion) is amateurs in their midst. Can never be too sure what they will do in a crossing situation.

 

[dlochner]

Pretty sure the racing is "weekly competition" than the occasional 2 local yacht club runs about the bay a year.

Isn't it a race anytime 2 sailboats are heading in the same direction and within sight of each other?

 

[jviss]

Isn't it a race anytime 2 sailboats are heading in the same direction and within sight of each other?

Yes, but only if you strike your yacht ensign.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Our BoatUS (Geico) policy never wanted to see a copy of our survey (Even though I paid for one). it's a 1989 Hunter 30G. Since the Admiral pays the bills, I'm not sure what our rate is. They did ask if we race and I said no.

Ken

I think the difference is the "Agreed Value" coverage. If you don't want agreed value, they just cover you for a more depreciated value and they won't bother asking for a survey. I argued the value when they quoted the value way under the price so they came back with "Agreed Value" coverage and the demand for survey (with valuation on the survey - that's what I have on the survey).

When I insured Thunderbird, a 35-year old boat last year, the coverage is about half of what I would want for Agreed Value coverage. They said they would only do that if I provided documentation for all of the improvements I made to the boat. I didn't go thru the effort since I really didn't want to pay a higher price for the insurance, either. I figured it probably wouldn't be worth it.

I'm wondering what the insurance rate would be if I simply accepted the value she quoted at first.

 

[jssailem]

There is no easy answer, Scott.

 

[jviss]

Insurance can be counter-intuitive. For example, the premium for my 1984 Catalina 36 was higher than my 1996 Tartan 3800. The Tartan is worth almost six times the Catalina. Most of the reason is age. Also, not all policies are alike. You really have to check limits and exclusions like environmental clean-up, hauling for hurricanes, personal injury and liability limits, towing, etc., etc.

We are happy with Hinklley, now Ace insurance, having made one painlessly resolved claim.

 

[JRT]

The race question came up with me on our 2003 310 with BoatUS, I said no. I set agreed value at $50k, 12 month in water policyis $538. No survey was asked for or required. My boat is paid for so no financing and I have very good credit. Call back and tell them no racing and see if that helps.

Also congrats on the boat! Is this the one with the bow thruster?