Calling all Catalina 275 owners

[Froudy]

Hi,

Just introducing myself my name is John and I bought Chipara #29 from Edward at the end of last season. I too am eagerly waiting for current crisis to ease. The boat is currently in a yard in RI and I plan to keep it in Sag Harbor NY. I did have a cunning plan to travel up and sail her back but the State of New York has now closed its Marinas so I have been foiled. Great to find this thread and I cant wait to start sailing.

Best
Johh

 

[Codybear]

Welcome Pete and John to the forum and congratulation on your purchases. Covid-19 is going to make it an interesting start to the season. The marina where I store my boat for the winter is open but I'm not sure what's going to happen with the harbor I sail out of as they may not have the dingy service running. I may have to pick up an inflatable boat to row the 70' out to the boat.

 

[drewlamparello]

Congratulation Pete,
I would have bought that boat myself but I didn't want a shoal keel. It is in really good condition and very well outfitted.(I looked at it awhile back).
I just received a PHRF rating of 189 here on Lake Norman, but with the present crisis all racing has been cancelled for the time being. Still sorting my boat out so don't have any tips to share, just questions! But that's for a later posting.
Welcome aboard.
Steve

is the 189 with or without the chute?

 

[drewlamparello]

Hi,

Just introducing myself my name is John and I bought Chipara #29 from Edward at the end of last season. I too am eagerly waiting for current crisis to ease. The boat is currently in a yard in RI and I plan to keep it in Sag Harbor NY. I did have a cunning plan to travel up and sail her back but the State of New York has now closed its Marinas so I have been foiled. Great to find this thread and I cant wait to start sailing.

Best
Johh

View attachment 177748

Congrats, glad to have another member/ Owner... I'm sure you're anxious to get her sailed

 

[pete boland]

189 sounds a lot better than others on this thread...I hope I can persuade FWYC here to use same!

Anyone talked about C275 one-design regatta?

Thanks for the warm welcome all...

 

[Codybear]

I don't have recent numbers, but I have the impression Catalina has not produced 50 of these to date. It is a very small fleet, even though we have 3 of them in my little harbor. That said, any hope of one-design racing pretty much went out the door around 2015. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. But enjoy her anyway. The C275 is a nice way to get out sailing without all of the work of a bigger boat.

 

[drewlamparello]

I don't have recent numbers, but I have the impression Catalina has not produced 50 of these to date. It is a very small fleet, even though we have 3 of them in my little harbor. That said, any hope of one-design racing pretty much went out the door around 2015. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. But enjoy her anyway. The C275 is a nice way to get out sailing without all of the work of a bigger boat.

Last discussion I had with the folks at Catalina couple of moths back was they had Hull number 50 and 51 in process. They should have been delivered by now

 

[Jumpstart]

The Catalina 275 phrf rating has been difficult for handicappers to pin down. As earlier posters have stated the look of the 275 works against it because it looks fast and has a long waterline. 189 with spinnaker is about right but is slower rated that a 40+ year old Catalina 30. Sad. As a former PHRF handicapper for 30 years I see several design compromises that hinder its racing ability.
1. Too much wetted surface for sail area. Boat doesn't wanted to perform until wind is over 10 .
2. The hull shape works best when boat is flat. Narrow hull is not conducive to weight on the rail so rail meet isn't that effective
3. Foils look reminiscent of boats from the 80s. No weight low. Could uses a higher lift keel with a L bulb
4. Outboard shrouds preclude the use of a larger headsail. A 150 would pump up light air performance especially in chop.
5. Sprit isn't long enough. Needs more sail area and should be at least 4-1/2 feet. Probably limited by righting moment of keel without weight down low.
Bottom line it appears that the sales department wanted certain things that they thought would sell and they won out over the design group.It is sad because the 275 is a nice looking boat. The concept of a boat easy to sail and maintain is a good one but this boat not that well designed for racing. Sort of an updated gentleman's day sailer. They should have learned from the Schock Harbor 25 which has similar performance and looks like it would be fast but isn't. I'm sure the 275 will have its moments but those moments might be limited to 90-120 degree reaches in 8-14 knots of air and winds of 10 knots and above with flat water. Chop will throw the bow around a lot with that small headsail.
A mid 80S, C&C 27MK5, inboard rates about 180 will dust the 275 in almost any condition especially upwind.

 

[Codybear]

It's unfortunate the PHRF raters did not have your insight when they were assigning numbers as low as 130, which has really set this fleet back for years, if not a decade. I've been smoked in reaching conditions as you described, so she isn't fast in those conditions as well. I've found the C275 really shines is when the winds get up to 20 and everyone else's 150 is too big and now everyone is on an even playing field. And with the downwind in those conditions, the furling spin is less prone to errors, so that is another opportunity to excel on other people's errors. Overall, she isn't a fast boat and members of sail anarchy predicted that in 2013, even with Catalina understating the weight at 5000 lbs. As I've always said, the C275 is a sheep in wolf's clothing, but for a daysailor, she checks the boxes.

 

[pete boland]

It's unfortunate the PHRF raters did not have your insight when they were assigning numbers as low as 130, which has really set this fleet back for years, if not a decade. I've been smoked in reaching conditions as you described, so she isn't fast in those conditions as well. I've found the C275 really shines is when the winds get up to 20 and everyone else's 150 is too big and now everyone is on an even playing field. And with the downwind in those conditions, the furling spin is less prone to errors, so that is another opportunity to excel on other people's errors. Overall, she isn't a fast boat and members of sail anarchy predicted that in 2013, even with Catalina understating the weight at 5000 lbs. As I've always said, the C275 is a sheep in wolf's clothing, but for a daysailor, she checks the boxes.

Every sailboat has design compromises (like most things in life), unless it's some sort of white-knuckled offshore race sled. I've owned 3 sailboats and each one had major issues on the race course, but thousands of happy owners. The last boat I owned (co-owned) was a J/80 on San Francisco Bay. It had a narrow window when it performed to its rating - somewhere between 10-13 knots. Otherwise it either wallowed around or was out of control with the big kite! But we enjoyed every single race. Prior to that I had an Olson 25 that I thought was a complete dog (and terrifying with the kite up), sold it to a couple in their late 70s who promptly won race after race at Tiburon YC.

I'm hoping that Quantify (to be renamed Limey because I'm an ex-pat Brit), with its overlapping headsails and outboard tracks (and screecher which I think is like a Code 0?) might be slightly more competitive than standard. Even with a very average (or more accurately, well below average?) racer like me at the helm!

And if it is a bit of a dog, that's what one design is for. Codybear, you mentioned 50 boats - is that the number needed for US sailing's official one design moniker...? I sail windsurfers too, one design, we often only get 20 or so together at most. Doesn't stop us from racing together?

cheers all

 

[Codybear]

But that's 50 boats (51 actually) worldwide. The problem is that in order to have one-design racing, you need enough one-design boats that will race together. The C275 is way too sparse to have any one-design racing. I raced one-design windsurfers in the 70-80's when a windsurfer was actually a Windsurfer. I've been out of that so long, but when I left, even the open class with Mistrals and Whalers in the Midwest was dead. Not sure on the moniker, but you still need at least 5 active boats in the immediate area to make a reasonable fleet. Anything less, you'll be lucky to get 3 boats on the line on any given day. I've seen enough fleets come and go to know that a C275 racing fleet was dead before it even started. There was hope in Toronto in 2014, but I'm not sure if that even materialized. I would like to see it happen, but you need a lot more than 50 boats worldwide to make a fleet.

 

[Jumpstart]

I don't have a 275. I looked at them closely and really wanted one when they came out. The local dealer had a blue one in front of his building for 5 years. Budget was the reason for not buying the boat. There is a lot to like about the 275. Since I was also heavy into racing I eventually bought a used J/92 for about 1/3 the price of the 275. It is stiff boat that is easy to sail shorthanded. The interior is way more spartan but serviceable. The boat is a blast to sail and even sails well with just the main. It weighs the same as the 275 with 135sq ft more of sail area. With a 155% its 200 sq ft more. The largest spinnaker (A2) is about 1250 sq ft. Yikes. The A3 is 25% less which is still a lot. Good luck with your 275s.

 

[Froudy]

So a quick question as i plan my trip to RI to NY is was wondering what is a comfortable pace to maintain when using the motor. Any feel for diesel consumption?

Thanks
John

 

[Codybear]

Not knowing the exact locations, I'm guessing about 65 nm which you should be able to make 6-6.5 knots assuming you are not going into the waves and wind. It will be a little monotonous under motor, so hopefully you can set the sails. Don't have an exact fuel consumption, but I would guess for your trip about 1/8 to 1/4 tank and certainly less than 1/2 tank of fuel. Max RPM is 3600 so a cruise at 2800-3000 should be ok. You can vary the RPM if you are still breaking in the engine.

 

[SteveLKN]

is the 189 with or without the chute?

The 189 rating is without the chute. The base rating is 183 with 3 seconds added for the furling jib and another 3 for the fixed prop. For comparison the Catalina 30's here rate between 183 and 201 depending on configuration. C27's rate 210-222, Ranger 28's 183-189. And J-80's rate 117.
All racing here has been suspended so I haven't had the chance to compare the boat against others yet. So far the very few times I've been able to sail it have been singlhanded, trying to figure the boat out. It's a long walk for a singlehander to go forward to trim the jib and try to get back to the tiller before the boat tracks itself.

I should have included in the post above that our PHRF ratings are the same with or without a spinnaker. I applied for a rating without including a spinnaker even though I have one.

 

[drewlamparello]

The 189 rating is without the chute. The base rating is 183 with 3 seconds added for the furling jib and another 3 for the fixed prop. For comparison the Catalina 30's here rate between 183 and 201 depending on configuration. C27's rate 210-222, Ranger 28's 183-189. And J-80's rate 117.
All racing here has been suspended so I haven't had the chance to compare the boat against others yet. So far the very few times I've been able to sail it have been singlhanded, trying to figure the boat out. It's a long walk for a singlehander to go forward to trim the jib and try to get back to the tiller before the boat tracks itself

Racing has been suspended in Charleston as well. My Rating here in Charleston turned out to be 180 w the chute and 202 with out... Haven't had the crew to compete with the chute so can't tell there. We are doing organized harbor pursuit cruises (not part of CORA) and twice now I've come in about 30 minutes after the last boat before me... about a 15 mile race. I've done OK to the Windward mark, but then all these sleds put up their chutes and good by. They have said only crew aboard is your family and all boats must stay 50 feet apart. Not sure what that means to rules like leewards boats pushing you up. and who has to move.... but here is mu solution for the distance to the winches before this I simply used the self tacking means with the Jib furled to fit...

In any regard I'm having fun with it
Good luck


So while I love the boat, it really is a slug

 

[Jumpstart]

For those sailing in areas with ORR or ORR-EZ handicap systems the news is not good. ORR is a measured system. It looks like PHRF of 180 is more favorable than ORR. The higher the number the faster the rating. Pretty interesting. A CS30 rates in the 140s. Wavelength-165. Pearson 30- 174. Yikes!

Cloud Nine	Catalina 275 Sport		Fin	106.0%	Asym-CL	0.762	20.4​	28.5​
Revolution	Cs 30		Fin	150.0%	Both-PL	0.763	11.8​	14.8​
Terroir	Bristol 35.5 CB		CB	155.0%	Asym-CL	0.758	7.6​	10.0​
Harrier	CS 30		Fin	154.5%	-	0.749	9.1​	9.1​
Synapse	Jeanneau 389		Wing	130.0%	Asym-CL	0.754	13.2​	17.4​
Death Star	J/24	One Design	Fin	150.0%	Sym-PL	0.737	17.7​	21.2​
Another Dubious Decision	Wavelength 24		Fin	152.6%	Sym-PL	0.762	22.3​	26.6​
Heyday	Pearson 30		Fin	155.0%	Sym-PL	0.744	8.9​	10.8​

 

[Froudy]

Hey folks - A quick bit of advice my boat is finally going in the water end of this week and a friend is driving me up to RI so I can sail her home to NY. To meet the RI covid quarantine restriction I pretty much have to jump in and go! I did buy a copy of the owners manual from Catalina and I can only see two sea cocks in the manual. Looks like head and sink. I cant see anything regarding engine cooling - is there a separate sea cock for engine cooling? I see mention of it in the Yanmar manual but can't find a picture. So any wise words appreciated! Maybe the few things you would do before you set off? I have all the safety gear, compass, charts, navionics. Its more about what do you do when you are prepping a 275 for a trip out.

Thanks John

 

[Codybear]

Hopefully the weather cooperates for you and doesn't blow on the nose.

Yes, there's only the head and sink seacock which I never close, even though I probably should. Have seen water in the galley sink but never seen water on the floor (toilet hooked-up to fresh water so that's not a problem). There's a seacock on the saildrive (look for the connected hose on the starboard side) for cooling, which is flushed out with the exhaust. I have never closed it, but you may want to check that it wasn't closed by the previous owner. If you ever have trouble starting, close the saildrive seacock after 30 seconds of cranking. Otherwise, the water will fill up your exhaust system and go backwards into the cylinders. After the engine starts, reopen. Just something to keep in mind in case you are ever in that situation. PM your email and I'll send the parts catalog diagram for the SD20 where the seacock is part 54-1(2).

There's not much to the boat. First sail of the year, make sure the rigging is secure, correct and ideally have the pins taped as well. Instead of paying top dollar for the white rubber tape, I just get the black rubber tape at HD (Scotch 2242). Just put it around the pins/cotter and not the entire turn buckle as you don't want it trapping water (corrosion). Also anything that may snag the jib/spin. If you motor for a long time, fluctuate the RPM a little in case you are still breaking in the engine. I'd throw in some short bursts of full throttle (15-30 seconds) as well to help seat the rings.

Have fun and enjoy your new (to you) boat.

 

[Froudy]

Thank you Codybear - I'm planning on Sunday ... weather models showing a promising Sunday or Monday for a run all the way home. I'm using a package called LuckGrib if anyone is interested - they have also recently released a weather driven routing tool which is fun as well.