Hunter 33 pong

Ralph Johnstone · May 6, 2020

Did you get the brand name of the hose ? Cheap sewage hose can be responsible for a large part of the smell.

jssailem · May 6, 2020

John. @Peggie Hall HeadMistress Might volunteer additional insight, and her book is a terrific resource. It sound a little like a design issue. As I have learned from Peggie, you want your live to run down hill from near the toilet to the top of the holding tank. This way the amount of water is reduced to forcing the effluent up and over the initial rise. From there gravity is your friend. Additionally I have learned from Peggie, our toilets can pump the effluent vertically to about 4 ft. This should be high enough to a well designed system to function.

Your decision about the boat I guess revolves around are you up for some plumbing and will the boat be worth the investment. Only you can decide this issue. I can say with certainity tht most plumbers believe they can solve these types of problems.

The permeated odor will need separate care. There is a product that may help, PureAyre. You can find it online And in some shops. I have used it to help with diesel bilge odor. I understand it works other smells as well.

BigEasy · May 7, 2020

Ditto what jssailem stated, buy Peggy Hall’s book for solutions to your plumbing & odor problem. Even though you have a long run from the head to the holding tank, this may be a contributing factor to your problem; however, I don’t recall there being an odor problem that is specific to Hunter 33’s. Nice boat, i’ve been aboard one many years ago and liked it . After purchasing two boats with odor problems, one from mold because of a closed up unattended boat & one that had a half filled holding tank that sat unattended over the course of a few hot summer months, I can identify with your problem! The problem can be remedied and the odor eliminated over time. If you purchase, get the cushions off the boat immediately. Remove the covers and wash the foam thoroughly in a bath tub or kiddie pool thoroughly & let them dry in the sun, then wash the covers with an upholstery cleaner and reinstall them on the foam and again let the foam / covers dry in the sun for a few days. Keep the cushions off the boat until you fix the source of the boat odor. The hoses are permeated and have to be replaced with high quality hoses, trident or raritan hoses are the standards, raritan sani flex is preferred. If possible, remove the tank and clean it completely with detergent & bleach. This would also be a good time to evaluate the tank vent line and ensure that it is an adequate size diameter. Replace the toilet with a raritan or at least retrofit the toilet to include a raritan pump. With a plumbing system such as found on the 33, I would use fresh water only, to thoroughly rid the hoses of any effluent to prevent the new hoses from quickly becoming permeated. Peggy is the go to source as how to accomplish this. Keep the holding tank pumped out after use & flush it several times with fresh water when you pump out. Now you can address the remaining odor in the boat. Ventilate for days with fans & open hatches. Clean every interior surface, including the bilge and areas under the floorboards, as well as wood surfaces, with a mild bleach & your favorite smelling detergent. I like to wipe the wood surfaces with lemon oil for mold inhibiting action and pleasant aroma. Continue to ventilate, and when the odor is completely gone, bring the cushions back aboard. It’s quite a bit of work and I doubt if you’ll find someone to do a thorough job, so I recommend doing it yourself. Be sure to discount the cost of your labor from the price of the boat, cause it is a nasty job and a lot of work; however, once you get it odor free, you’ll have a great boat!

shemandr · May 7, 2020

A lot of the modern Hunters have a long run from the head to the holding tank which is near the transom. In addition it is basically uphill - even with an anti siphon loop. So if the PO didn't manage the system carefully you get what this boat has - stink. It calls for a price reduction. I once looked at a Hunter in the 33' area that was on a mooring. The toilet was near overflowing and the whole boat stunk. I passed on it. I couldn't believe the broker would even show it in that condition. I assumed he didn't know. And, at least in my 356, you would have to cut up the holding tank to remove it. That would be one nasty job!

Don S/V ILLusion · May 7, 2020

The world is full of boats longer than 33feet which have multiple heads separated from a single central holding tank. It’s not necessarily a design flaw and in fact may not even be from a hose unless you can eliminate any leak possibility. Regardless, it should be easy to clarify the source and air out the cushions. Not a showstopper to purchase.

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · May 7, 2020

If odor is the only problem this boat has, it shouldn't be a deal breaker...'cuz odors are actually the least expensive and easiest (though can be a bit labor intensive) problem to cure. Plus they're a great bargaining chip!

I can't argue with the recommendations to buy my book (see link in my signature below...however since it appears that you're in Canada, you might find it easier to get from Amazon.ca ...eliminating the cost and aggravation of shipping it internationally from the US)...it not only deals with every source of odor on a boat and how to cure, or better yet PREVENT 'em, it's actually a comprehensive "marine toilets and sanitation systems 101" manual that explains the laws, describes all the types of systems and how they work, and will help you learn how to operate and maintain your system to prevent 99% of problems instead of having to cure 'em. 'Cuz you get to do any preventive maintenance on your terms when it's convenient...the need to cure a problem never happens when it is! And I'm always glad to answer any questions it doesn't.

--Peggie

Richard19068 · May 7, 2020

Everything BigEasy said except as I recall I think Peggie says that holding tanks rarely permeate so you probably don't need to remove or replace it.

"Unless it's leaking, the holding tank is rarely if ever the source of odor INSIDE the boat...'cuz odor from inside the tank has only one place to go: out the tank vent".

Separately, I wonder why there is such a long run from the holding tank to the discharge thru hull. It would be some work but you might be able to add a thru hull and discharge pump somewhere closer to the tank.

Bill19233 · May 7, 2020

My 20 year old Hunter still has original hoses and does not have that boat "head smell", it used to stink. A little worse than the other Hunters I used to timeshare with Sailtime, I haven't been on may boats without some "head smell". Had to air it out every time we used it, If someone flushed on a downwind run, the tank vent would spill horrible odor into the cockpit.
The surprise fix was when I replaced the original Jabsco head with a Raritan fresh head. I replaced it because I was already on the third pump rebuild or replacement of the Jabsco pump and it was leaking again. I also thought the fresh head would be easier for guests to use, no flipping between fill and flush. The fresh head uses treated pressurized water from the fresh water system tank and pump, not raw salt water. The raw water is what really stinks, the stagnation in the pump, bowl, inlet, and hoses really creates a primordial bacteria soup. The smell cleared up pretty quick after I changed the head and removed the inlet hose and plugged the seacock. Of course the holding tank still smells, but not near as bad as before and not at all inside the boat.
Also check for plugged drain holes from the liner to the bilge. raw water caught in between the hull and liner can get pretty ripe, too.

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · May 7, 2020

Richard19068 said:
Separately, I wonder why there is such a long run from the holding tank to the discharge thru hull.

I can explain that:
Boat builders--especially production builders-- are the worst sanitation system "designers" on the planet because they don't design 'em...they put holding tanks anywhere there's space to put it without any thought to the distance from the toilet or any thru-hulls. Because to them, holding tanks are added expense that add -0- added value to the boat, they'll install one tank on a boat that has two heads at opposite ends of the boat...often resulting in the being on 3' from one of the heads and 20+ feet from the other one.

I've seen a lot of bad sanitation plumbing, but the worst was a 38' motoryacht with serious odor inside the the boat caused by permeated hoses. The holding tank was under the sole at the foot of the walk-around queen berth in the bow. Instead of running the tank pumpout and vent lines over to the hull and out--about a 4' run...the builder did run 'em over to the hull, but then put 90s in 'em and ran them all the way to the cockpit--about 30', which was bad enough...but they also neatly c-clamped the hoses to the hull about every 4', making it impossible to pull old and new hoses through....all of which was done before any of the interior was fitted out. We had to remove everything on the starboard side of the boat-- cabinetry, built-in seating, wallboard...to get rid of the stinking hoses. Needless to say, we ran the new hoses directly from the tank over to the hull and out. The plumbing used to connect two toilets to the one tank was another nightmare, but correcting that was a walk in the park compared to the tank discharge plumbing job.

--Peggie

Scott B · May 8, 2020

John12643 said:
I just returned from a three hour inspection of a 2004 Hunter 33 that I was thinking of buying. This was a pretty well kept 16 year old boat with one huge exception. The boat smelled like a toilet. The hose from the midship head to the holding tank in the stern must be 15 feet long. My guess is that the head is not pumped enough after use to get the waste all the way to the tank. It's a very long way. The hose gets polluted and smells. Then the run from the tank back to the midship thru-hull is also about 15 feet long. Another contributor to the intense pong. Its so bad on this boat that even the seat and bunk cushions smell.

Have any owners experienced this problem and found a way to deal with it?

Mosy likely original hose and permeated. I replaced mine couple years ago ( '05 H33 ) with Trident 101, but there's a more flexible hose available which will make installation way easier. @Peggie Hall HeadMistress would know which one.

Replacement is a challenge as Hunter installers decided it was a good idea to use zip ties with screws to keep the hose in place but locate them way uner the floor. I ended up with my arm jammed to my elbow with a pair of side cutters at fingertips to cut the ties. PITA but well worth it. Also there is a hose from the base of the tank that runs downhill to the macerator located under the aft bed and then leads to the thru-hull. That hose only drains when you run the macerator so is full most of the time. I took out the hose and capped the tank as this boat will most likely never be in an area that could use the macerator. ( it can be replaced quite easily if ever needed again ) The thru-hull now feeds a wash down pump for the anchor chain.

I wouldn't pass on the boat just from this but make sure you discount for the hose replacement at least. You may also want to chack all of the other hoses as well. I've found cracks and minor leaks in most all the others and have now replaced everything. Head intake, galley drain, head sink drain, and even the water fill hose in the bow.

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · May 8, 2020

Scott B said:
Mosy likely original hose and permeated. I replaced mine couple years ago ( '05 H33 ) with Trident 101, but there's a more flexible hose available which will make installation way easier. @Peggie Hall HeadMistress would know which one.

Yep...Trident 101/102 (identical except for color...102 has a white skin on it) have proven to be 100% odor permeation resistant, but have one major drawback: they're as stiff as an ironing board, almost as impossible to bend more than a few degrees as hard PVC, making suitable only for long straight runs. Raritan SaniFlex hose RaritanSaniFlex hose has proven to be just as odor impermeable and also has the added advantage of being so flexible it can be bent like a hairpin without kinking...making it MUCH easier to use in most installations.

--Peggie

jaysweet · May 10, 2020

John12643 said:
I just returned from a three hour inspection of a 2004 Hunter 33 that I was thinking of buying. This was a pretty well kept 16 year old boat with one huge exception. The boat smelled like a toilet. The hose from the midship head to the holding tank in the stern must be 15 feet long. My guess is that the head is not pumped enough after use to get the waste all the way to the tank. It's a very long way. The hose gets polluted and smells. Then the run from the tank back to the midship thru-hull is also about 15 feet long. Another contributor to the intense pong. Its so bad on this boat that even the seat and bunk cushions smell.

Have any owners experienced this problem and found a way to deal with it?

John,

Are you sure that the entire run from the head to the holding tank is hose? We have a 2004 Hunter 306 with a sideways-oriented aft cabin between head and tank, and the entire run under the aft cabin seems to be solid PVC pipe. Our boat also had a funky odor for years. Just last week, I removed 3 sections of 1.5" sanitary hose from the boat, each section less than 1 foot long. A couple of days later, the smell was almost entirely gone (and I haven't even replaced all the hose yet: some of the holes are just plugged temporarily with a wad of paper towel). Amazing that a total of 3' of hose could generate that much smell! But it seems that the tank and the 6' PVC pipe aren't smelling much, if at all. I'm thinking the cushions will smell better after I leave them in the sun for a few hours.

Either way, if you have solid PVC I think you'll be good, and if you don't, then flexible hose will be easier to re-run. One more thing: I tested the 1" black rubber hose between macerator and thru-hull for smell (hot wet rag test), and it was fine. It seems that only the white hose Hunter used in 2004 is subject to being permeated by odor.

Jay

Scott B · May 10, 2020

jaysweet said:
John,

Are you sure that the entire run from the head to the holding tank is hose? We have a 2004 Hunter 306 with a sideways-oriented aft cabin between head and tank, and the entire run under the aft cabin seems to be solid PVC pipe. Our boat also had a funky odor for years. Just last week, I removed 3 sections of 1.5" sanitary hose from the boat, each section less than 1 foot long. A couple of days later, the smell was almost entirely gone (and I haven't even replaced all the hose yet: some of the holes are just plugged temporarily with a wad of paper towel). Amazing that a total of 3' of hose could generate that much smell! But it seems that the tank and the 6' PVC pipe aren't smelling much, if at all. I'm thinking the cushions will smell better after I leave them in the sun for a few hours.

Either way, if you have solid PVC I think you'll be good, and if you don't, then flexible hose will be easier to re-run. One more thing: I tested the 1" black rubber hose between macerator and thru-hull for smell (hot wet rag test), and it was fine. It seems that only the white hose Hunter used in 2004 is subject to being permeated by odor.

Jay

Yes, it is hose, the same model as mine.

jaysweet · May 10, 2020

Scott B said:
Yes, it is hose, the same model as mine.

Well, if 3' of hose caused as much smell as we experienced, then I can only imagine what 15' of permeated hose must smell like. ("That's almost... 5 TIMES as much smell!"

) Come to think of it, I don't want to imagine it. I guess you need to hope that they didn't use hose clamps (hose-to-bulkhead) in inaccessible places. If not, you can probably just wire new hose to old hose, wrap the junction with tape, and pull the new run through.

Scott B · May 10, 2020

jaysweet said:
I guess you need to hope that they didn't use hose clamps (hose-to-bulkhead) in inaccessible places. If not, you can probably just wire new hose to old hose, wrap the junction with tape, and pull the new run through.

Of course they would, see my post above. Contorted arm jammed up to my elbow in the access plate under the cabinets in the aft cabin, with side cutters on the tips of my fingers. Spent about an hour getting 1 cut and then hoped I could get my arm back out....

Scott B · May 10, 2020

Peggie Hall HeadMistress said:
Yep...Trident 101/102 (identical except for color...102 has a white skin on it) have proven to be 100% odor permeation resistant, but have one major drawback: they're as stiff as an ironing board, almost as impossible to bend more than a few degrees as hard PVC, making suitable only for long straight runs. Raritan SaniFlex hose RaritanSaniFlex hose has proven to be just as odor impermeable and also has the added advantage of being so flexible it can be bent like a hairpin without kinking...making it MUCH easier to use in most installations.

--Peggie

Trident hose has been great, except any suggestions on how to get rid of rubber smell. Now going on 3 years.

jssailem · May 10, 2020

Scott, I would try the “PureAyre”. It works wonders on diesel odor. Give it a spritz around and on the hose. Give it some time to work (a beer in the cockpit). Then check the space. Big inhale, exhale. If still there, give is a second shot of PA. Walk away and clear your nose with a walk around the marina looking at the pretty boats.

Might do the trick. If not you had a beer and a walk about the marina, which is not too bad.

Hunter 33 pong

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SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

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SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

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