Propane - Can I Keep It Simple

[Tally Ho]

These poor folks had a propane explosion on their boat...he was lucky to be outside on deck when it went boom.

Take a look at the damage to the sole in particular.

I have propane on my boat, and I really like having the stove and oven. But you have to respect propane and set up your system properly. That means a propane locker outside of the cabin (or lazerette), with a drain. A solenoid to turn the gas off at the tank, proper piping to the appliance, and ideally, a propane detector.

You may be able to use the small camping stove a 1# bottle IF YOU HOOK up the bottle and use the appliance, the immediately remove the propane bottle and store it outside.

Greg

 

[rgranger]

I've had a rail mount on my cruising cat and I found that I didn't use it that much. The first problem is wind. The second problem is bugs; nothing draws mosquitores to the boat like a grill. It just seemed like more trouble than it was worth, and we had a nice galley. But if you like steak it could be the bomb.

When I'm camping on my boat, I like brats and eggs or smoked sausage and eggs. Eggs on my Origo are just fine and I can fry sausage and brats but the grease splatter is a pain to clean up. AND brats and sausage on a grill are much better. Now.... if I had a BBQ on my boat, chicken thighs, steak, skewered vegies etc. might make the menu.

 

[shemandr]

Those little green bottle valves are NOT reliable. I've had several leak.

 

[sailnoproblem]

I guess I am old, old, old school. But then again I have a old boat. I still use my alcohol stove in the cabin and get this I use a charcoal BBQ grill on my stern rail. I'll take the taste of charcoal over gas any day. ( yea the clean up is a pain, but I think it's worth it.)
I am not a big fan of propane on the boat, and am overly cautious of my gas tank and lines.
I do all the work on my boat but agree with Scott, with propane I would use a pro.
STAY SAFE EVERYONE.

 

[Jim26m]

When I'm camping on my boat, I like brats and eggs or smoked sausage and eggs. Eggs on my Origo are just fine and I can fry sausage and brats but the grease splatter is a pain to clean up. AND brats and sausage on a grill are much better. Now.... if I had a BBQ on my boat, chicken thighs, steak, skewered vegies etc. might make the menu.

It's only money... you can't take it with you. Plus, it's under a boat buck. Cheap boat mod.

Good time to do it. You'll probably have a few more relatively cool evenings, when the bugs aren't too bad...

Mounted mine rigid off the stern so I wouldn't knock it off while docking. Bungee the lid shut for trailering.

 

[markwbird]

I am planning the same thing. There was a similar thread a couple of years ago in which someone installed a propane stove but instead of hooking up the typical propane tank he used the greenies which tied into the system at the stern as the normal tank would. No need to store a large propane tank. A greenie is good for a few meals.

 

[Jim26m]

Depending on boat size, weather, and how air-tight it is, a single green bottle could get you to LFL/LEL concentration in the bilge. It's unlikely that a single green bottle will get you, but not totally out of the realm of possibility. Ran some quick numbers on my 26 ft, shallow bilge boat and it was close. As @shemandr says above, the green one-use bottles occasionally leak, so you need to be diligent with them. The one use Butane cartridges gave a bit more margin as I recall, simply because there was less fuel available.

If you only have the fuel bottle inside when you're cooking, and store it outside in a "drained" enclosure, you should be fine. All fuels have hazards, even un-pressurized alcohol.

In the test video, it appeared they were using two green bottles, and releasing them simultaneously into a closed cabin. Makes you think about how dramatic a 20lb release and explosion might be.

I was trying to talk myself into the two burner Origo when they quit selling them... Now, I have a more interesting decision.

 

[justsomeguy]

If you only have the fuel bottle inside when you're cooking, and store it outside in a "drained" enclosure, you should be fine. All fuels have hazards, even un-pressurized alcohol

This. ^

 

[rgranger]

I was trying to talk myself into the two burner Origo when they quit selling them...

I really like mine and wonder why they quite making them. Seems that if you modified the design just a little so that it could be both a drop in and a stand alone stove, these would be real popular with campers and RV folk as well as boaters. I also feel that if the alcohol canister could be replaced with a large "sterno" styled burner, then the storage of fuel would be a lot more convenient and safe AND you could sell a consumable that went with the stove for continued revenue. Any venture capitalist out there want to give me a call?

 

[Bob J.]

If your anchor locker drains overboard & is accessible from the deck of your boat, not a bad place to store 1# cylinders. I keep a spare 5# in mine. There's no "propane" locker at the stern of my boat, I just zip tie the working 5# to the rail.

 

[thinwater]

I too have had valve failures on 1-pound propane bottles. Fortuantly, my last boat (PDQ 32) had both a dedicated fuel tank compartment in the bridge deck that was sealed from everything and drained overboard AND a separate propane locker for 2 20-pound bottles. I kept the 1-pound bottles in the gasoline tank compartment.

I would never store bottles in the cabin. Bad risk. Find place on deck and NOT in a part of the cockpit that could drain into the cabin. I sometimes see new boats with propane lockers that open into the cockpit. Stupid.

 

[Ward H]

I use a Magma propane grill on my boat but this year I'm trying a butane 2 burner stove for those days I want to cook in the cabin.
I removed the original stove/oven as the thought of having propane in the cabin makes me nervous, despite the safety devices.
I store my 1# bottles in the propane locker. Will probably store the butane there as well.

 

[RussC]

If you're looking for simple but efficient, it's pretty hard to beat the Iwatani single burner unit. I've had one for 3 years and love it. in fact the longer I have it the more I use it, rather than the two burner griddle/burner that I custom made a portable gimble mount in the cockpit for. the iwatani unit puts out 12000btu which boils water VERY quickly, has a quality regulator that maintains even pressure as you use the propane canister, plus has the usual safety shut-offs. it's just so convenient to grab it for a quick meal, drink, or even for heating up some shower water in the evening. plus it's so compact that it stows easily. the (aerosol type) fuel canister can stay in the unit (disconnected) when not in use, as these don't seem to leak like some of the one pound tanks do.

https://www.amazon.com/Iwatani-Corporation-America-ZA-3HP-Portable/dp/B006H42TVG/ref=sr_1_12?dchild=1&keywords=single+burner+propane+stove+stainless+steel&qid=1586474706&s=sporting-goods&sr=1-12

 

[dlochner]

If you're looking for simple but efficient, it's pretty hard to beat the Iwatani single burner unit. I've had one for 3 years and love it. in fact the longer I have it the more I use it, rather than the two burner griddle/burner that I custom made a portable gimble mount in the cockpit for. the iwatani unit puts out 12000btu which boils water VERY quickly, has a quality regulator that maintains even pressure as you use the propane canister (lasts 3+ hours each) plus the usual safety shut-offs. it's just so convenient to grab it for a quick meal, drink, or even for heating up some shower water in the evening. plus it's so compact that it stows easily. the (aerosol type) fuel canister can stay in the unit (disconnected) when not in use, as these don't seem to leak like some of the one pound tanks do.

https://www.amazon.com/Iwatani-Corporation-America-ZA-3HP-Portable/dp/B006H42TVG/ref=sr_1_12?dchild=1&keywords=single+burner+propane+stove+stainless+steel&qid=1586474706&s=sporting-goods&sr=1-12

Those stoves are marketed under a lot of different brand names. There are some good things about them and some not so good things about them. At the top of the list is they use butane which is also heavier than air, so any leaks from the fuel canisters will allow an explosive gas to collect in the bilge. A second issue is the heat build up around the canister. Using them to heat small quantities of food or water is probably not an issue, however, if you use them to boil a large pot of water for pasta, the heat produced can cause problems with the fuel tank over heating and leaking fuel.

On the plus side, they are inexpensive, the fuel canisters hold less gas than the 1# propane tanks, and the fuel tank must be disengaged when placing the stove back into its case.

I have one, I've used it. They work well. They are hot. However, they are not much, if any, safer than a camp stove, and all the caveats mentioned about propane camp stoves apply. I now have a properly installed propane stove with gas sensors and solenoids. I'll keep the butane stove to use on shore or in the cockpit.

 

[RussC]

Those stoves are marketed under a lot of different brand names. There are some good things about them and some not so good things about them. At the top of the list is they use butane which is also heavier than air, so any leaks from the fuel canisters will allow an explosive gas to collect in the bilge. A second issue is the heat build up around the canister. Using them to heat small quantities of food or water is probably not an issue, however, if you use them to boil a large pot of water for pasta, the heat produced can cause problems with the fuel tank over heating and leaking fuel.

On the plus side, they are inexpensive, the fuel canisters hold less gas than the 1# propane tanks, and the fuel tank must be disengaged when placing the stove back into its case.

I have one, I've used it. They work well. They are hot. However, they are not much, if any, safer than a camp stove, and all the caveats mentioned about propane camp stoves apply. I now have a properly installed propane stove with gas sensors and solenoids. I'll keep the butane stove to use on shore or in the cockpit.

There are several of these stoves that do look similar. most of the less expensive ones, like the Coleman, camplux, gas one, can cooker and others do indeed appear to be the same manufacture. the Iwatani is somewhat similar in outward appearance, but is in fact a much higher build quality. stainless burner and pan supports, more sophisticated regulator, etc. I actually own one of the Coleman units as well as the Iwatani, and they both work excellent, but I do believe the Iwatani is the safer and more durable unit. Yes, the butane is heavier than air, however the per-can quantity of fuel is smaller than the green 1 lb, as well as being in a much more dependable container to begin with. As to the heat issue you mention, one of the extra features of the Iwatani is a high temp fuel shut-off, should that ever occur, but I routinely use mine to heat a large pan (2.5 gal) of water to put in my portable shower and have no overheating problems.
The Coleman style stoves do require that the tank be removed in order to put the stove in the plastic travel case, but the Iwatani does not.
Many thousands of all the various brands similar to these are in use without issue, but each person is welcome to make his/her own choices I recon'. I'm happy with what I've got.

 

[Alan Gomes]

There are several of these stoves that do look similar. most of the less expensive ones, like the Coleman, camplux, gas one, can cooker and others do indeed appear to be the same manufacture. the Iwatani is somewhat similar in outward appearance, but is in fact a much higher build quality. stainless burner and pan supports, more sophisticated regulator, etc. I actually own one of the Coleman units as well as the Iwatani, and they both work excellent, but I do believe the Iwatani is the safer and more durable unit. Yes, the butane is heavier than air, however the per-can quantity of fuel is smaller than the green 1 lb, as well as being in a much more dependable container to begin with. As to the heat issue you mention, one of the extra features of the Iwatani is a high temp fuel shut-off, should that ever occur, but I routinely use mine to heat a large pan (2.5 gal) of water to put in my portable shower and have no overheating problems.
The Coleman style stoves do require that the tank be removed in order to put the stove in the plastic travel case, but the Iwatani does not.
Many thousands of all the various brands similar to these are in use without issue, but each person is welcome to make his/her own choices I recon'. I'm happy with what I've got.

I currently use a non-pressurized alcohol stove, which I like a great deal. But I have used extensively the one burner butane stoves on a previous boat, including an Iwatani. Some observations:

• The Iwatani is indeed a very high quality stove, which is reflected in the price. There is no comparison in quality between that and the $20 stoves you can find every day of the week on eBay. It burns very hot and runs at full-tilt until the canister is exhausted. This contrasts with the cheaper stoves that will run with less pressure once the canister drops below a certain point.
• The valves on the butane canisters seem to be *much* more reliable than the small green propane bottles, in my experience at least. I've had the valves on the green bottles stick; this has never happened to me with the butane canisters. I don't mind using the green bottles on my propane BBQ on my stern rail, but I would not store them in the cabin.
• Butane is heavier than air as is propane, so one needs to exercise caution here as well. In general I'd store these outside (though see next point).
• From a 2002 Practical Sailor article: "In the 1994 evaluation, we noted that the American Boat & Yacht Council (ABYC) had only recently approved use of these 8-ounce butane canisters in the living areas of boats. And then, only one canister at a time is allowed; spare canisters are supposed to be stored outside, in a compartment ventilated overboard, perhaps where you keep the outboard motor gas tank. ABYC standard A-30 allows only the 8-ounce butane canister, and not the heavier 16.4-ounce propane bottle commonly used for camp and some marine stoves. This is unfortunate because propane is a commonly accepted fuel; both the Seacook and Mini-Galley use the canisters, and the extra amount wouldn't seem to pose much additional danger. While we suppose ABYC had to draw the line somewhere, why not at 16 ounces? We point out ABYC's position in case this is of interest to you or your insurance company."
• The canisters can become hot if one places an oversized pot or pan on the burner that sits over the canister and reflects the heat directly down on it. However, the safety valve on these stoves is designed to eject the canister should that happen. The quality of the safety valve on the Iwatani is superior and is another point in its favor, though theoretically any of them are supposed to disconnect the canister. But one should follow the guidlines that come with the stove and limit yourself to a maximum diameter that does not cause the pan to sit over the canister. In that case there would be nothing to cause the canister to overheat in the first place. The canisters do not heat up at all in normal use.
• Buying the canisters at a place like WestMarine is going to be very pricey. I have a large local Korean grocery store in my town that sells the canisters for about $1/ea. (These stoves are very popular in wok cooking.)

As I said, I like my built-in non-pressurized alcohol stove and have no plans to retire it. But if I were not using it I'd go back to an Iwatani. My 26 footer is on the small side, so the small butane stoves would not chew up too much storage space when not in use. I think it's a good option when used with reasonable prudence.

 

[Benny17441]

Ok Pressurized Alcohol stoves can be dangerous but Non-Pressurized Alcohol stoves are quite safe. The problem with Propane is that the gas is heavier than air and should a leak arise the gas pours like water and will pool in any enclosed space. In addition propane in high concentration like when it pools is highly explosive. Alcohol fumes on the other hand are lighter than air and will dissipate into the atmosphere. I hear where you are coming from and it can be done but requires intimate knowledge of the product and the dangers. In the old times we used to strap a 20lb propane tank up on deck and run a hose or copper tubing to a stove in the cabin. Having the tank on deck or hung overboard provided that in the case of a leak at the tank the propane would flow overboard. We used to keep the tank valve closed all the time and would only open it when getting ready to cook and immediately shut it off afterwards. We would stand vigilantly by the stove while cooking to be able to smell any leaks and watch out for burners flameout. If the flame on a burner goes off the gas will continue to flow into the cabin. Today copper tubing is not used as it is rigid and can crack with boat motion. I know some that use the 1lb canister but you need to take reasonable precautions. Use a marine quality propane stove with thermocouple switches (in case of a flameout the stove switch will cut off propane flow) Install a 3 to 6 ft propane hose to keep the canisters away from the burners and in between add a pressure switch (to check for leaks and also cut off flow in case of a massive leak). Remove the the cannister after every use and store it only after insuring the valve has completely sealed. You may store the cannisters in the anchor locker where any leaks can flow to the water but they can be susceptible to rusting When getting into the boat and a few times a day you may get into the habit of smelling the air for the odor of propane. The best alternative for sporadic use would be a non-pressurized alcohol stove, something like the true and tried Origo 1 or 2 burner stoves. Denaturized alcohol can be purchased very inexpensively by the gallon in a hardware store. Remember safety first as fire or an explosion are deadly aboard a boat.

 

[dlochner]

Alcohol fumes on the other hand are lighter than air and will dissipate into the atmosphere.

This is not accurate. The molecular weight of Oxygen is ~16 g/mol and in its usual form as 02 the weight is double or 32 g/mol. The dominant gas in the atomsphere is nitrogen which has a molecular weight of ~7. Ethanol aka denatured alcohol has a weight of ~46 g/mol. It is quite heavy.

Alcohol burns with a clear flame making it difficult to see. The big issue with pressurized alcohol stoves was a leak which would then ignite and not be seen until it was too late. Filling non-pressurized canisters in the cabin also presents a fire hazard if it spilled for the same reason.

 

[Alan Gomes]

Denaturized alcohol can be purchased very inexpensively by the gallon in a hardware store.

However, California boaters should note that denatured alcohol has been banned for sale.

 

[Alan Gomes]

Alcohol burns with a clear flame making it difficult to see. The big issue with pressurized alcohol stoves was a leak which would then ignite and not be seen until it was too late. Filling non-pressurized canisters in the cabin also presents a fire hazard if it spilled for the same reason.

On my non-pressurized stove it most certainly does not burn clear. I can definitely see the flame. Also, unless you fill the canisters while they are still hot (i.e., operator idiocy) refilling them is hardly a fire hazard. Someone who is that inept ought not to be sailing a boat!

I use an empty soup can with a small hole drilled in the bottom to fill the empty, *cold* canisters. I put the canister in the sink, set the soup can on top of the canister, and then pour the alcohol into the soup can. The small hole slows down the flow so that it will not overflow the canister. It's about an easy as can be and perfectly safe.