Hello, this is my first post to this forum. I have noticed some damage to my Edel665.
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Edel 665
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- 665 edel trailer sailor
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,869
First, welcome to the Forum.
While it is possible that a rib has broken, I would not leap to that conclusion.
I do not know the boat, but it is stated to me French built and fiberglass construction. Most 1984 vintage boats were constructed using a mold with bulk heads placed to stiffen the mold.
It appears from the interior image that there is a deck that is been sprung. It appears the edges are smooth. That leads me to conjecture you could remove the gear in the area and lift the edge of the decking to inspect what is underneath.
The outside image looks to have a crack near the trailer bunk stand. One can only guess on the cause. The boat hit a rock on the side, the trailer was run over a bump at speed with the boat not tied to the trailer and the boat slammed down on the stand.
What ever caused the damage it will need to be fixed before you put it in the water. You will need to lift the boat off the trailer and expose the damaged area both inside and out.
Hopefully you can find a dry heated space to work the magic over the coming winter months.
While it is possible that a rib has broken, I would not leap to that conclusion.
I do not know the boat, but it is stated to me French built and fiberglass construction. Most 1984 vintage boats were constructed using a mold with bulk heads placed to stiffen the mold.
It appears from the interior image that there is a deck that is been sprung. It appears the edges are smooth. That leads me to conjecture you could remove the gear in the area and lift the edge of the decking to inspect what is underneath.
The outside image looks to have a crack near the trailer bunk stand. One can only guess on the cause. The boat hit a rock on the side, the trailer was run over a bump at speed with the boat not tied to the trailer and the boat slammed down on the stand.
What ever caused the damage it will need to be fixed before you put it in the water. You will need to lift the boat off the trailer and expose the damaged area both inside and out.
Hopefully you can find a dry heated space to work the magic over the coming winter months.
Concur as more info is needed. More pictures of the outside one of a large portion of the starboard hull. Is that marine growth and if so can you remove it. Also one photo of the boat on trailer. Any leaks fromtopside?
As @Crazy Dave Condon said a few more photos would help especially with the boat on the trailer. Two thoughts are the weight of the boat is on the pads and not the keel and/or the pads are not positioned correctly. Ideally the pads should be located beneath a bulkhead so any pressure from the pad is distributed throughout the hull and not just where the pad contacts the hull.
@dochner was hitting the mark but needed to know if this was a fixed keel or swing keel as well. I use to be an investigator and laterba sailboat dealer
It looks like the boat is too far back on the trailer. I don't think a jack should be necessary to support the aft end when it is off the tow vehicle. It would also make the tongue weight too light which will adversely affect trailering.
If the boat was pulled forward so that the front of the keel was at the forward end of the channel the pads would be under the mast step and the aft bulkhead behind the damaged area.
Of course this doesn't answer the original question, just points to possible causes. The dislodged panel needs to be removed to see what's under neath and then we can talk about repair.
If the boat was pulled forward so that the front of the keel was at the forward end of the channel the pads would be under the mast step and the aft bulkhead behind the damaged area.
Of course this doesn't answer the original question, just points to possible causes. The dislodged panel needs to be removed to see what's under neath and then we can talk about repair.
Looks that way to me. The boat is in the wrong position on the trailer, placing too much unsupported weight on the pads.
Need to know what caused it. First can the boat be moved forward while keel is still in keel tray as there should be no tilting of trailer in the back with boat on. Ideally there should be 10% of total weight of boat on the trailer tongue if in the event there are no brakes. Then the owner needs to realize the weight of the boat should be resting on the keel tray, not the pads. Third the pads keep the boat from tilting over with pads adjusted. Once done then you can assess the hull and interior damage for repair.
I sent the owner my number advising I am a former dealer but I also was taught by Ron Frisosky(deceased) how to design trailers who was considered one of the best in designing sailboat trailers
Remove straps when in storage and not sure if overnighted while transporting
I sent the owner my number advising I am a former dealer but I also was taught by Ron Frisosky(deceased) how to design trailers who was considered one of the best in designing sailboat trailers
Remove straps when in storage and not sure if overnighted while transporting
It looks to me like this boat went aground on some rocks or hit a dock multiple times during a storm. Something punched in a large area of the hull, causing multiple fractures at a variety of angles.
It’s obvious from the interior picture of the aft starboard birth that someone previously cut an access hole To get at the hull from the interior. When they replaced the cut out they simply glued it in place, they did not properly bevel new glass into the repaired area. The cut out panel has popped up due to compression on the outside of the hull from the trailer pad pushing on it laterally.
I really don’t think this is damage caused by the trailer Bunk. The pattern of the cracks on the outside of the starboard aft hull would look quite different if the damage were caused by a hard spot at the aft end of the trailer bunk. There is an area of concentric cracks in the gelcoat that can be explained best by a hard collision. The pattern of cracks always tells the story about what happened to the boat.
(There’s a small chance the Boat was dropped from a great height onto the trailer and it bounced around causing multiple fractures like that. But that would be really unusual. It’s far more likely that The damage was caused by waves banging the hull aground or against a dock or against a dock. It would take multiple impacts in different places to cause that kind of widespread fracture)
Anynthing fiberglass can be repaired as good as new, but who ever did those repairs didn’t know how to do it correctly. I suspect the person put patches over the fractured hull did not cut out the original laminate and scarf in new glass. When you patch over Old fractures, the fractures and patches create hard spots and stress risers and the repair always fails sooner or later. It is imperative to cut out the fractured area completely, replacing it with a new laminate of similar thickness and flexibility, and with a 10 or 12:1 scarf /bevel where the new laminate meets the old.
To be sure, I’d want to pull up the cutout in the interior and have a good look. That will tell us a lot. I’m willing to bet there are hidden repairs on the inside surface of the hull.
Judy B
It’s obvious from the interior picture of the aft starboard birth that someone previously cut an access hole To get at the hull from the interior. When they replaced the cut out they simply glued it in place, they did not properly bevel new glass into the repaired area. The cut out panel has popped up due to compression on the outside of the hull from the trailer pad pushing on it laterally.
I really don’t think this is damage caused by the trailer Bunk. The pattern of the cracks on the outside of the starboard aft hull would look quite different if the damage were caused by a hard spot at the aft end of the trailer bunk. There is an area of concentric cracks in the gelcoat that can be explained best by a hard collision. The pattern of cracks always tells the story about what happened to the boat.
(There’s a small chance the Boat was dropped from a great height onto the trailer and it bounced around causing multiple fractures like that. But that would be really unusual. It’s far more likely that The damage was caused by waves banging the hull aground or against a dock or against a dock. It would take multiple impacts in different places to cause that kind of widespread fracture)
Anynthing fiberglass can be repaired as good as new, but who ever did those repairs didn’t know how to do it correctly. I suspect the person put patches over the fractured hull did not cut out the original laminate and scarf in new glass. When you patch over Old fractures, the fractures and patches create hard spots and stress risers and the repair always fails sooner or later. It is imperative to cut out the fractured area completely, replacing it with a new laminate of similar thickness and flexibility, and with a 10 or 12:1 scarf /bevel where the new laminate meets the old.
To be sure, I’d want to pull up the cutout in the interior and have a good look. That will tell us a lot. I’m willing to bet there are hidden repairs on the inside surface of the hull.
Judy B
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The floor jack at the back doesn’t have anything to do with tongue weight when trailering. It’s there to keep the trailer from popping a wheelie if you need to stand on the transom. If you stand on the transom when the trailer Isn’t hitched to the truck, it could tilt back, hitting the transom or the rudder on the ground. Yikes!
Some OEM trailers actually come with jacks on the back of the trailer. My J70 trailer came with two small jack stands on the rear. And I always put a stand under the cross member of my other trailerables when I’m working on them. It’s standard operating procedure for a trailerable boat.
Yes, and, the keel is not centered over the trailer axle and the leading edge of the keel is aft of the keel tray. When I was dry sailing j24s we always made sure the keel was centered over the axle and the leading edge was at the forward end of the keel tray. I assumed the boat had been trailered as it is currently sitting not the trailer, so the tongue weight would be too low.
Interesting theory. Notice in the first photo the water stain (??) several inches above the floor.
The damage could be caused by multiple factors. Impact damage as you suggest or flooding. Having the pads in the wrong position and too much weight on the pads would exacerbate the any damage caused by impact or flooding.
Regardless of the cause, I think we all can agree that:
The panel needs to be removed to see what the damage looks like and if there have been prior repairs.
The boat needs to be moved on the trailer so the pads are not in the damaged area
The OP should start reading about repairing hulls. The West System website is a good place to start.
@DrJudyB
On any boat that needs to have a floor jack underneath it, you really do not know what is going on. First, straps from towing are still attached which is one reason. Secondly the boat may be too far back looking at where it sits on trailer. There are a couple minor reasons but that was not mentioned not knowing all the details. But better to be safe. If a boat does not have surge brakes and it is heavily loaded on the stern, I know what will happen. If you brake suddenly the trailer will sway and you will loose control. Nearly found out the way in the early 80’s
At my facility I made sure on the trailerable sailboats except for the small ones, no boat should be able to tip backwards only with one person standing in the back. However, each boat was supported by bracing the back end of the trailer for safety.
Enough said but we do not have all the answers
On any boat that needs to have a floor jack underneath it, you really do not know what is going on. First, straps from towing are still attached which is one reason. Secondly the boat may be too far back looking at where it sits on trailer. There are a couple minor reasons but that was not mentioned not knowing all the details. But better to be safe. If a boat does not have surge brakes and it is heavily loaded on the stern, I know what will happen. If you brake suddenly the trailer will sway and you will loose control. Nearly found out the way in the early 80’s
At my facility I made sure on the trailerable sailboats except for the small ones, no boat should be able to tip backwards only with one person standing in the back. However, each boat was supported by bracing the back end of the trailer for safety.
Enough said but we do not have all the answers
Wow! Thank you all for the feedback, this confirms a few theory’s that have been swirling around in my head. Once I get back from vacation I will open up that panel and take a closer look to see if any repairs have been done.
Happy holidays!
Happy holidays!
You're welcome. Speaking for the others, we're all glad to help.
You posed an interesting question. Please follow up when you get back from vacation.