Synthetic Rigging for a Trailer Sailer

Apr 13, 2018
30
O'Day 19 Rexford, NY
There's a couple of dinged up standing rigging bits on my O'Day 19... a crimped backstay tail, a bent turnbuckle, etc. The rest of the rigging looks good to my neophyte eye, but I can only check for the obvious stuff: rust, meat hooks, etc. New rigging from D&R isn't horribly expensive, but it's another expense to take care of before she hits the water. The expenses do tend to add up, and I'm at the stage where I'm really wanting to hit the water.

I'm not keen on tackling steel cable rigging myself, despite being a diehard DIYer. There's a lot riding on those cables, and it'd really suck to have one fail and watch the mast come down because a bad fitting I did myself. Being located in the Capital District of Upstate NY, I'm pretty sure I'll be able to locate someone to fab up a new tail (assuming I can't get one from Rudy), press on the other half of that turnbuckle bolt (assuming I can; might need to replace the whole stay), and give the rest of it a look over to rest my worried mind.

On the other hand... that Tylercraft 24' sitting out in front of my house is going to need replacement rigging, too. It's *bad*... and for me to say it's bad has got to mean its *BAD*. Rusted cable, bent turnbuckles, you name it. I'll have to swap it all out before she hits the water. Researching my options there lead me to synthetic rigging, which tickles my DIY tendencies.

Which got me thinking... what about replacing the rigging on the O'Day with synthetic? New England Ropes HTS-78, specifically. More expensive than fixing the existing steel cable, most likely, but I'll learn something splicing it. I'm a little concerned about the construction creep, though... most demonstrations I've seen online have been on non-trailer sailers, where the mast is left up along with the rigging. They can tension that synthetic cable down, let it creep, and reset the tension to accommodate. The O'Day rigging manual I've got mentions tightening the rigging no more than hand tight (specifically noting that the leeward shrouds will go slack and should not be tightened). Sure doesn't sound like that's enough to take the construction creep out of the rope, and I haven't heard enough tales of using synthetic on a weekender trailer to give me warm fuzzy feelings about using it.

Thoughts?
 

Jim26m

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Apr 3, 2019
579
Macgregor 26M Mobile AL
My cousin runs it on his Farrier Tri. He trailers quite a bit, and loves the synthetic rigging for trailering. Part of the reason it takes me so long to get my rig down and ready for trailering is due to trying not to kink my rigging. When it comes time to replace mine, I'll be looking hard at synthetic.
 
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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
They can tension that synthetic cable down, let it creep, and reset the tension to accommodate. The O'Day rigging manual I've got mentions tightening the rigging no more than hand tight (specifically noting that the leeward shrouds will go slack and should not be tightened). Sure doesn't sound like that's enough to take the construction creep out of the rope, and I haven't heard enough tales of using synthetic on a weekender trailer to give me warm fuzzy feelings about using it.
You typically use DUX, which is pre-stretched dyneema. Not cheap. While synthetic has advantages (and disadvantages!) at the end of the day cost savings will probably not be one of them.
 
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Jim26m

.
Apr 3, 2019
579
Macgregor 26M Mobile AL
Pretty much agrees with what I've heard. However, if it cuts my tear down time by 5-10 mins, and reduces my angst, it might be worth it. My rigging is still in good shape, so I've got time to ponder (and take out a mortgage).
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,995
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
end of the day cost savings will probably not be one of them.
So true.
My searching of the subject led me to believe it was two benefits...
  1. Ain't it cool how I have Ultra-High Molecular Weight Polyethylene holding my mast up?
  2. See the pretty line. There is no weight of the SS cables yet the stuff is stronger than the wire cables. My boat is faster.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Great idea!
I started to watch this video however at the beginning he suggested that if we had not seen his earlier video, we watch that first.... so I did. It is an excellent video on splicing. He made it look SOOOOO easy and his splices were very professional. It is a link worth watching IMHO.
 
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Apr 13, 2018
30
O'Day 19 Rexford, NY
I figure the cost savings bit will come into play with my labor, as opposed to paying for someone else's labor.

Isn't the New England Ropes HTS line preshrunk?
 
Jun 8, 2004
10,024
-na -NA Anywhere USA
Since I have been away, what about someone with a sharp knife, can it cut the line or any sharp instruments as well by accident?
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,995
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
a sharp knife, can it cut the line
Absolutely, yes. Dyneema can be cut. Is it easy? well yes and no. Would it require an intentional act? Yes. The stuff is tougher than standard line. Having not previously thought about it, a fellow with a bolt cutter could walk up to my boat and cut a stay.

That said, it is not necessarily a reason not to use the Dyneema or similar line for rigging. It is just a decision of price and replacement cost in order to get a rig with less weight above the deck.

I see it better serving day rigs and racers than multi-day cruisers. If you're raising and lowering your mast frequently you can constantly examine the rigging and monitor it's condition. If you're out for weeks at a time in coastal or open waters, your attention to the upper ends of the rigging tends to be of a lower concern. You want rigging that is semi permanent and will last through all types of environ.
 
Jun 25, 2004
1,108
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
Which got me thinking... what about replacing the rigging on the O'Day with synthetic? New England Ropes HTS-78, specifically. More expensive than fixing the existing steel cable, most likely, but I'll learn something splicing it. I'm a little concerned about the construction creep, though... most demonstrations I've seen online have been on non-trailer sailers, where the mast is left up along with the rigging.
I’m no expert on dyneema rigging, even though my 1992 boat now has it, as do all new Corsair trimarans. What I know is based on reputable sources on the internet. For example, see http://www.colligomarine.com/fundamentals

My shrouds are Dyneema Dux, which is, I believe, prestretched and heat treated SK75. From what I’ve read, SK75 responds better to heat treatment than SK78 dyneema..

I think (not sure) that the equivalent fiber from New England Ropes is HSR75, not HTS-78. I can't tell you for sure, but you can contact Kevin.Coughlin@teufelberger.com to ask him which dyneema rope would be appropriate for your 19'trailerable.

Isn't the New England Ropes HTS line preshrunk?
Not sure what you mean by preshrunk. That's not a term that's usually applied to dyneema. There's "pre-stretched" and "heat treated prestretched" What you want is dyneema that has been pre stretch under a high load and heat treated in that state to rearrange the molecular chains. (I think)

I have found, as have other Corsair owners, that the rope “fluffs up” when you coil it for trailering. As a result, the Dux shroud will be a hair shorter initailly when we raise the mast. It will "stretch" or "settle in" after a couple of hours of sailing. We have to tighten the shrouds after a couple of hours of sailing. But my Corsair F24 Trimarans has easily adjustable tensioners so we slacken then during mast raising tighten them before we sail, and then re-tighten them after sailing for a while.

(Picture from Drew Fye's website
http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2019/05/shro8ud-tensioner.html
)

For a small trailer sailer such as the Oday 19, with comparatively short shrouds and light loads, you might be fine with SK78 or 99, but I don't have enough experience to advise you. Ask Keven.Coughlin. He can advise.

On edit: fixed link to Drew's blog
 
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Jun 25, 2004
1,108
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
Since I have been away, what about someone with a sharp knife, can it cut the line or any sharp instruments as well by accident?
It's extremely abrasion resistant and quite hard to cut. I doubt that you could cut it by accident with a steel blade.

In my experience of using dyneema for appropriate applications since about 2013, abrasion has not been a problem.

The dyneema line is coiled up for trailering and that's the time that it's most likely to be damaged, It is possible to snag a hair-thin fiber on something sharp if you use non heatset dyneema, and break one fibre occassionally. Then you see the line get fuzzy looking. When it gets very fuzzy looking, it's time to replace it.

And coiling it is quicker and easier than wire.

My prior two boats had adjustable Dyneema backstays. I probably Amsteel's SK78 (which is not pre-stretched and then heatset). Replacing would be cheap and easy, but I never had to do that in the 3-4 years that I owned each boat.
 
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Jun 25, 2004
1,108
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
As an added point:
Dyneema doesn't work well for mast raising guys aka baby stays. There is too much constructional stretch. I've tried it using Amsteel SK78 and Dux.

The prior owner of my F24 used Dux for the mast stabilizing baby stays of the rasising system. I removed it and converted the system to 7 x 19 flexible wire rope, which has negligible stretch under the light strain loads of mast raising. I assembled the wires with hand swages and turnbuckles to the approximately correct length, and then fine tuned the tension with the turnbuckles. The 35' mast goes up and down almost like it's on rails, with negligible side sway or axial roation And it was pretty cheap for DIY.

I've experiment with dyneema in mast raising system on under 20' trailerable. I removed it and went back to 7 x 19 wire. 7 x 19 is very flexible and easy to coil. It doesn't kink. Stretch is neglible.
 
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Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
This is an interesting thread. I have t-ball terminals and went looking to see if they have t-balls with eyelets. Yep!


Switching to dynema on an H26 might make a fun winter project.
 
Jun 25, 2004
1,108
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
Absolutely, yes. Dyneema can be cut. Is it easy? well yes and no. Would it require an intentional act? Yes. The stuff is tougher than standard line. Having not previously thought about it, a fellow with a bolt cutter could walk up to my boat and cut a stay.

That said, it is not necessarily a reason not to use the Dyneema or similar line for rigging. It is just a decision of price and replacement cost in order to get a rig with less weight above the deck.

I see it better serving day rigs and racers than multi-day cruisers. If you're raising and lowering your mast frequently you can constantly examine the rigging and monitor it's condition. If you're out for weeks at a time in coastal or open waters, your attention to the upper ends of the rigging tends to be of a lower concern. You want rigging that is semi permanent and will last through all types of environ.
Hi John,

I wouldn't say that SS wire is better for multiday and multiweek cruisers who don't raise and lower their rigs frequently. It's actually more reliable than SS cable for those reasons. Dyneema doesn't suffer from corrosion or work hardening that breaks strand at the end terminals.

It is subject to UV degradation. However, if forms a protect coating upon exposure to UV. The fix for that is to size it just a bit too large so it can form a "sacrificial" coating. Or buy it with a cover.

The biggest drawback is the cost of conversion. The specialized terminals for lashing are pricey. The thimbles at each must be larger in diameter than those required by wire rigging.

That's not a problem for small trailerables with light loads; SS thimbles can be used. But for larger boats with larger loads, the thimbles you need to use terminals than open body thimbles The terminals are usually made of solid body aluminum terminations. They are pricey.

To all: As I said before, I am not an expert on synthetic rigging, so please double check everything I've written. by consulting a real expert!
 
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Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Hi John,

I wouldn't say that SS wire is better for multiday who don't raise and lower their rigs frequently. It's actually more reliable than SS cable for those reasons. Dyneema doesn't suffer from corrosion or work hardening that breaks strand at the end terminals.

It is subject to UV degradation. However, if forms a protect coating upon exposure to UV. The fix for that is to size it just a bit too large so it can form a "sacrificial" coating. Or buy it with a cover.
 
Feb 20, 2011
7,990
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
I have t-ball terminals and went looking to see if they have t-balls with eyelets. Yep! Switching to dynema on an H26 might make a fun winter project.
I'm thinking you'll want to fit a thimble in that eyelet, no?