The Next Thing.....

[nat55]

I think it safe to say that all those that spend time on these forums care deeply about the ocean and the environment. The challenge for each and every one of us it to have a positive impact on preserving our little piece of the bigger picture. I've noticed that talk of climate change is a topic that I hear almost every day. It has been discussed on this forum as well.

If you have a moment check out this link. https://krugerescapes.com/the-next-...0bpgjh_wvrtozqZ8FCC-lfj67jvz44uhoglrOkcfIDo30

Karl is currently on his way to Tuktoyaktuk, Northwest Territories to begin his adventure, being the first person to SUP the Northwest Passage. Karl is uniquely qualified to undertake this challenge, he is the only person to complete the R2AK on a SUP and fully recognizes the difficulties he is going to face, finding open water among them. While open water is good for Karl and his goal it is not good for the planet. Hopefully his goal of creating awareness of the changes going on in these critical environments will be well documented, and he won't become a meal for a polar bear.

Once this challenge has been faced Karl's next project is to work on preparing the vessel Ocean Watch for her next around the Americas tour. Some may remember her previous trip around the Americas that was well documented by Herb McCormick editor @ Cruising World magazine. Karl purchased Ocean Watch last year and will be skippering her around North and South America beginning in the fall of this year.
We are going to get aboard somewhere along the route. It remains to be seen where.....I'll keep you posted.
http://www.projectoceanwatch.com/

 

[Blye]

We had a nasty night here and they are becoming more frequent.
Having worked at a college that had a lot of far north Indigenous students I saw this coming years ago and it's real.

 

[nat55]

Thanks Blye, good to see you posting again.......did your students talk about the changes that they were seeing?

 

[Blye]

Quebec caribou being driven to extinction in some areas, structures tipped because of the permafrost melting snow machines that almost can’t be used because there is no snow no sea ice

Kids were complaining about this stuff in 2005

 

[Blye]

BTW

There are a few of us that think it’s too late

We’re screwed

 

[Tod]

Great news! The desert areas are greening!

https://notrickszone.com/2019/01/16...e-change-shrinks-sahara-desert-by-whopping-8/

However, after a few years of being pretty open, last year, cruise ships were forced to cancel planned excursions on the NW Passage due to ice.

 

[iSaint06]

BTW

There are a few of us that think it’s too late

We’re screwed

Not if we act now. Vote the stupid people out. Do your part. Trump is the only world leader who thinks we're ok. We're not ok.

 

[Tod]

tax me harder, daddy!

 

[Blye]

Great news! The desert areas are greening!

https://notrickszone.com/2019/01/16...e-change-shrinks-sahara-desert-by-whopping-8/

However, after a few years of being pretty open, last year, cruise ships were forced to cancel planned excursions on the NW Passage due to ice.

What nonsense. What the heck’s notrickzone? The Sahara, is getting bigger. It is advancing south into more tropical terrain in Sudan and Chad, turning green vegetation dry and soil once used for farming into barren ground in areas that can least afford to lose it.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/03/180329141035.htm

As for cruise ships it’s only with the melting of the NW Passage they’re able to venture into the far north

 

[Will Gilmore]

Great news! The desert areas are greening!

https://notrickszone.com/2019/01/16...e-change-shrinks-sahara-desert-by-whopping-8/

The Sahara, is getting bigger. It is advancing south into more tropical terrain in Sudan and Chad, turning green vegetation dry and soil once used for farming into barren ground in areas that can least afford to lose it.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/03/180329141035.htm

I'm confused.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Tod]

Lies, damned lies, and statistics. Choose your time period to promote your agenda?
Can't fight the message, so shoot the messenger (notrickzone)...
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth/
https://phys.org/news/2013-07-greening-co2.html


Before the Little Ice Age, the Vikings were exploring up as far as Ellesmere Island, but then the area became too iced over. Now that the ice age has ended and it has been opening up, the sky is falling, the sky is falling....lol But tax me harder, daddy!
https://www.adn.com/arctic/2018/09/...summer-forcing-cruise-lines-to-change-course/

This climate change hysteria has reached the fevered pitch of religious zeal, all for the purposes of political power and wealth. Try looking at solar activity. Look at what is going on with other planets. The rings on Saturn are breaking up. Mars ice caps are melting. (it's that damned Rover we sent!!!! Man ruins everything!!!)

 

[jssailem]

I found this discussion interesting.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Desertification of the Sahara region has been going on for hundreds of centuries. Climate change is a recurring, as well as an ongoing, process. The geologic & fossil records are clear testaments.The earth’s rotational velocity has slowed from what it once was hundreds of millions of years ago due to tidal friction that the moon has imposed. The “days”are longer than they once were. Sea level has gone up and down repeatedly, etc.

What we have now is a politicization of recurring climate phenomena from folks who fundamentally hate consumption. Consumption creates waste. So, how do you drive down consumption? Tax it. However, consumption is a fundamental property of economic growth, which leads to prosperity-i.e., homes, families, and kids, etc. So, whadaya gonna do? The world cannot have prosperity, no matter how evenly or unevenly shared, w/o consumption. The world cannot have consumption w/o waste. Blame everything empirically evident on waste. Stop waste, stops consumption, stops prosperity—people suffer. But the planet goes on through its cycles, nevertheless.

 

[TomY]

I think it safe to say that all those that spend time on these forums care deeply about the ocean and the environment. The challenge for each and every one of us it to have a positive impact on preserving our little piece of the bigger picture. I've noticed that talk of climate change is a topic that I hear almost every day. It has been discussed on this forum as well.

If you have a moment check out this link. https://krugerescapes.com/the-next-...0bpgjh_wvrtozqZ8FCC-lfj67jvz44uhoglrOkcfIDo30

Karl is currently on his way to Tuktoyaktuk, Northwest Territories to begin his adventure, being the first person to SUP the Northwest Passage. Karl is uniquely qualified to undertake this challenge, he is the only person to complete the R2AK on a SUP and fully recognizes the difficulties he is going to face, finding open water among them. While open water is good for Karl and his goal it is not good for the planet. Hopefully his goal of creating awareness of the changes going on in these critical environments will be well documented, and he won't become a meal for a polar bear.

Once this challenge has been faced Karl's next project is to work on preparing the vessel Ocean Watch for her next around the Americas tour. Some may remember her previous trip around the Americas that was well documented by Herb McCormick editor @ Cruising World magazine. Karl purchased Ocean Watch last year and will be skippering her around North and South America beginning in the fall of this year.
We are going to get aboard somewhere along the route. It remains to be seen where.....I'll keep you posted.
http://www.projectoceanwatch.com/

This is exciting, Nat. What an endeaver he's taking on! I look forward to hearing about your experience from the Ocean Watch.

Climate change is indeed on most everybody's mind these days. We're seeing the effects of the planets accelerated warming the last several decades, even on the coast of Maine.

In Pulpit Harbor last weekend I noticed a large construction barge. They had recently placed a wall of boulders on the shoreside of a cottage near the water.

High above the HW line, the cottage was loosing it's front yard, rapidly. The erosion caused by our astonomical tides, that are becoming more common with sea level rise, was startling.

Thanks for posting that.

 

[Will Gilmore]

King, That is about as eloquently stated as I have heard it put yet.
I would suggest that it isn't consumption that they hate so much as prosperity by the the wealthy that they hate. "They" are jealous and "they" both get attention by using hyperbole and shoot themselves in the foot with it.
I happen to agree with the moral argument but not with the conclusion "they" are arguing for. I'm fine with others being wealthier than I am; it is just the right way to live to pay attention to our environment, consumption and waste.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Bob J.]

This climate change hysteria has reached the fevered pitch of religious zeal

No arguing that!
Truth is the oceans are taking a beating & it really started with the industrial revolution, not "climate change".

 

[nat55]

Here is the Arctic Ocean...from scenic Tuktoyaktuk, Northwest Territories......Karl heads east in a couple of days....

 

[walt]

I have seen discussion like this go downhill very fast. However, I have also seen discussion on this subject stay civil. A simple rule keeps them civil and that is if you post some "fact" or data or whatever, you must post a link that agree's with you. You can still give your opinion or give conclusion that you came to on your own, but you either have to note that its something you came to on your own or give a reference that agree's with you.

As an example, some "facts" are listed in a post above. KG would have to find some links that agrees with what he just said. To some extent, you have to fact check yourself before posting. If you cant find a link that agree's with you, maybe its not correct.

We should try this (you must find a link that agrees with what you are saying or note that its just your opinion or that you made it up), I think it does wonders for the conversation.

Without this, I think the moderators will shut this down pretty quick. Requiring a reference also makes the discussion great for learning.

Desertification of the Sahara resgion has been going on for hundreds of centuries. Climate change is a recurring, as well as an ongoing, process. The geologic & fossil records are clear testaments.The earth’s rotational velocity has slowed from what it once was hundreds of millions of years ago due to tidal friction that the moon has imposed. The “days”are longer than they once were. Sea level has gone up and down repeatedly, etc.

 

[walt]

Most of the post above have given references to back up what is said.. If there is an attack, its on the reference, not the poster. Works well.

This is something I learned recently. A particular plot of ice core data for our interglacier period is used to show that the climate over the last ten thousand or so years has varied all of the place so its natural for the climate to do the same thing now. The plot is below and I got this particular version from this link https://www.carbonbrief.org/factche...res-say-about-past-and-present-climate-change (per the rule I suggested, I have to give the reference where this came from).

I have seen this particular plot show up in conservative blogs or video and I always wondered where it came from. Its used to argue that temperatures vary all of the place normally. Another version from an Australian conservative blog https://jonova.s3.amazonaws.com/graphs/lappi/gisp-last-10000-new-a.gif

Some quotes from the reference I gave referring to the above plot.

Based on an early Greenland ice core record produced back in 1997, versions of the graph have, variously, mislabeled the x-axis, excluded the modern observational temperature record and conflated a single location in Greenland with the whole world.

Turns out the data is from a single ice core reading.

A single ice core is also subject to uncertainties around elevation changes and other perturbations to the ice core over time..
As Prof Alley told then-New York Times journalist Andrew Revkin back in 2010:
“The data still contain a lot of noise over short times (snowdrifts are real, among other things). An isotopic record from one site is not purely a temperature record at that site, so care is required to interpret the signal and not the noise.”

Scientists reconstructing past Greenland temperatures now use estimates from many different ice cores, which reduces the uncertainties associated with any single one and gives a more accurate picture of changes over Greenland as a whole.
Alley made this point explicitly, telling Revkin: “So, what do we get from GISP2? Alone, not an immense amount. With the other Greenland ice cores… and compared to additional records from elsewhere, an immense amount… Using GISP2 data to argue against global warming is, well, stupid, or misguided, or misled, or something, but surely not scientifically sensible.”

A more modern Greenland temperature reconstruction, based on six different ice cores, was published by Prof Bo Vinther of the Niels Bohr Institute at the University of Copenhagen and colleagues in Nature in 2009.

Speaking to Carbon Brief, Vinther suggests that this multi-core Holocene reconstruction provides a number of advantages over the old GISP2 series, using ice core 18O data corrected for past elevation change and “tuned” to fit ice core borehole temperatures at four locations.

The plot below if from that same link I provided and is from the later 2009 paper that used six different ice cores.

Scroll back and forth between the two plots.. notice any difference? Anyhow.. I have seen the very jagget plot before (always on conservative blogs) and used to show that climate varies. Interesting that is was the first data out and based on only one ice core. The later plot based on 6 different ice core data could result in a much different conclusion regarding if our current 1C or so temperature anomaly "just happened" and is normal.

Now if someone responds to this, unless its just your opinion, you would need to find a reference that agrees with you. Ie, fact check yourself.

 

[Kings Gambit]

What are you saying? Give it in one sentence.