New sailor....needs new halyards for the refit.

[Oday to Gallivant]

hi
I am planning to acquire new Halyards’s and reef lines back to the cockpit in my oday 28. She is a 1983 model with two reef lines which at the moment don’t exist. I intend on installing one winch on the cabin top. I have already purchased a set of clutches...it’s a four in one piece model. I will relocate one of the mast winches. I have never used the second one in its present possion anyway.
Had thought, I would run the man halyard and both reef lines down one side of the cabin roof. Been reading a lot of the pros cons etc. Really enjoyed the past posts.....so I am just a cruiser and thought I would ask........I have used the oday forum halyard calculator and came up with 3/8x 84 foot long for the Genoa and main halyards. I have a roller furling ......I believe it’s hard attached at the top of the mast although I maybe wrong. Will find that out with further inspection. There is a halyard which seems to be hauled up which may in fact hold the top of the curler.......imbarrasing that I am not sure. She is tarped Unstepped on the hard at the moment. She is in dire need of need halyards and reefing lines.
I also have purchased an old used asemetrical spinnaker. Oday s halyard calculator quotes 101 feet for the length. Guess so you can raise it from the cockpit? I 90 of the time am a solo sailer.
Are these accurate?
Now for the inner boom reefing. Anyone know just how long I need for these lines? I will be runnng two lines of single line reefing.

 

[LeslieTroyer]

Your “I” is 36’ and “P” is 30.5. So

Main halyard is

36*2 + 5 (~ boom to deck) + 15 ( deck to cabin + extra) = 92’ estimate.

Job ( assume it exits at top of P)

30.5*2 + 5 + 15 = 81’

You can measure your reef points and do the math for your reefing - remember to count 2 times for distance from cringle to boom.

Note be sure and double check I just swaged and took Sailboatdata as accurate.

But 84 sounded short to me.

 

[dlochner]

Another approach is to measure the mast. Since the mast is down, this is pretty easy.

Measure from where the halyard leaves the masthead down to the deck, double that number.

Measure from the mast base along the route on the cabin top to the winch. Add that number.

Add 2 feet to account for the shackle splice

Add a few more feet so you have enough line to tail on the winch.

It is better to spend a few extra dollars and end up with a few feet of extra line, than to come up short. Rope stretchers are hard to find and expensive. That and they don't work very well.

The ⅜" diameter is a good size for a 28' boat. In the long run you will be happier with a low stretch line. New England Ropes, VPC is a good choice.

 

[Parsons]

Now is the time to buy line, with all of the rigging sales that happen in winter. Try APS ltd. and West Marine for their sale times.

 

[LeslieTroyer]

Add 2 feet to account for the shackle splice

Personally I prefer a halyard knot. The spliced end doesn’t always run well thru the sheaves, so the knot will usually hoist higher on the mast than a splice

But that’s the great thing about owning a boat. You get to make the decisions on how it’s rigged and run, and ignore posters with absolutely no hard feelings.

 

[dlochner]

Now is the time to buy line, with all of the rigging sales that happen in winter. Try APS ltd. and West Marine for their sale times.

APS sale ended on February 15.

West Marine does flash sales, one day only, but they are random.

The store here on SBO has a good selection of reasonably priced line. Besides, you should dance with the one that brought you.

 

[dlochner]

But that’s the great thing about owning a boat. You get to make the decisions on how it’s rigged and run, and ignore posters with absolutely no hard feelings.

So Les, are you saying you're ignoring me again?

 

[LeslieTroyer]

So Les, are you saying you're ignoring me again?

No I’m saying you can ignore me!!

 

[dlochner]

Personally I prefer a halyard knot. The spliced end doesn’t always run well thru the sheaves, so the knot will usually hoist higher on the mast than a splice

A halyard using an appropriate knot to secure the shackle makes it easier to turn the halyard end for end, thus extending the life of the halyard. Of course a spliced shackle can be cut off and tied to the other end, but it will need to be tied the second time as used line is difficult to impossible to splice.

And I never ignore @LeslieTroyer's advice, I may not follow it, but never ignore it.

 

[Jumpstart]

5/16” VPC is the right size for an Oday 28. I used that on my C&C 29 and it worked great. Make sure your rope clutches are sized for it

 

[Oday to Gallivant]

Thanks to all for the advise...esp. Les. I will be ordering as soon as I can.......spring is just around the corner. Itching to get out there again this spring. I have been stitching a new dodger and Bimini....sailrite machine and vids were great. I am loving this new lifestyle!

 

[Ron20324]

... turn the halyard end for end, thus extending the life of the halyard. Of course a spliced shackle can be cut off and tied to the other end, but it will need to be tied the second time as used line is difficult to impossible to splice.

How about splicing a loop for the shackle pin on BOTH ends when it is new??? Then to change ends you can cut the working shackle off to turn the line around. You'll need to do that anyway to attach a messenger line.

 

[dlochner]

How about splicing a loop for the shackle pin on BOTH ends when it is new??? Then to change ends you can cut the working shackle off to turn the line around. You'll need to do that anyway to attach a messenger line.

That could work, if the the splice will go through the sheaves and clutches. The eye splice that is used to connect to messenger lines to reave new halyards is called a reaving splice. It is a cover only splice, i.e., the core is not part of the splice. Unlike an eye splice the diameter of the line is not increased because the core is not in the splice subsequently it is very weak.

The other problem is that you would need 2 shackles to be spliced in to the halyard. Those will not go through the sheaves.

 

[Ron20324]

That could work, if the the splice will go through the sheaves and clutches. The eye splice that is used to connect to messenger lines to reave new halyards is called a reaving splice.
The other problem is that you would need 2 shackles to be spliced in to the halyard. Those will not go through the sheaves.

Well, DUH... No bird, Sherlock- where'd ya get the first clue? I didn't think I had to walk through it step by step... You can splice a loop to fit the shackle, ATTACH IT TO SOMETHING secure, say in the cockpit, RUN THE LINE UP INTO THE MAST FOR THE HALYARD. BRING IT DOWN THE MAST TO EXIT,THEN SPLICE THE OTHER END WITH EITHER JUST A LOOP FOR THE FUTURE SHACKLE, OR SPLICE IT ONTO A SHACKLE.

 

[dlochner]

Well, DUH... No bird, Sherlock- where'd ya get the first clue? I didn't think I had to walk through it step by step... You can splice a loop to fit the shackle, ATTACH IT TO SOMETHING secure, say in the cockpit, RUN THE LINE UP INTO THE MAST FOR THE HALYARD. BRING IT DOWN THE MAST TO EXIT,THEN SPLICE THE OTHER END WITH EITHER JUST A LOOP FOR THE FUTURE SHACKLE, OR SPLICE IT ONTO A SHACKLE.

First, there is just no need for the rude response in all caps.

There are a important steps that you have missed in your instructions. Before the new line can be installed, the old halyard must be removed and a messenger line run. This is pretty easy and straightforward if the prior owner put a Flemish Eye (aka a Reaving Eye) in the halyard tail. Take a small diameter, ⅛" line that is at least double the mast length and attach it to the halyard tail. If there is a Flemish Eye, the messenger can be simply tied to the halyard, in the absence of a Flemish Eye it is necessary to sew the messenger to the halyard. The messenger could be taped and not sewn, but taping is not as secure and separating the messenger from the halyard is just about the last thing you want to happen.The point at which the messenger attaches should be as small a diameter as possible so that it will run smoothly through the sheaves.

Using commonsense precautions to keep the shackle from going to the top of the mast or losing the tail of the halyard, attach the messenger line to the tail of the new halyard, again if there is a Flemish Eye, this is easier. Use the messenger to run the new halyard up the mast, tail first. Secure the halyard move on to the next.

So, why not do as @Ron20324 suggests and

How about splicing a loop for the shackle pin on BOTH ends when it is new??? Then to change ends you can cut the working shackle off to turn the line around. You'll need to do that anyway to attach a messenger line.

A Cored Double Braid Eye Splice or a High Tech Eye Splice (needed for VPC and other high tech lines) yields an eye that is larger than the diameter of the line, bulks up the line near the eye splice and makes the line very stiff where the core and cover are buried. As a result it won't run through the masthead sheaves as easily. Subsequently, only one end, the shackle end can have an eye splice. A second issue is the shackle. There are some headboard shackles that can be attached to an eye after splicing, there are few if any jib halyard shackles that can be.

Splicing an eye into a cored line presents its own challenges made more difficult if the line is old and used, a high tech line or tightly braided line, if the splicer is inexperienced, and if it is being done on deck. If the halyard is going to be turned end for end, the old splice will need to be cut off and it will be much easier to go with @LeslieTroyer's preferred method of a proper halyard knot (https://www.animatedknots.com/halyard/index.php).

A Flemish Eye is an easy splice. Take the time to put them on the halyard tails. Here are instructions: https://www.sv-jedi.org/sv_jedi/2017/04/flemish-eye-splice-in-a-polyester-double-braid-line.html

Cored lines, like VPC, Sta-Set, Sta-Set X and others have their strength in the core fibers, not the covers. The covers are there to protect the core and build bulk to make line handling easier. Since a Flemish Eye is a cover only splice, it has little strength but is adequate for pulling the line through the mast. It also makes for a neater end than a butane end splice. One of the best sources of information on line is on the Annapolis Performance Sailing website. http://www.apsltd.com. Spend time there and you'll learn more than perhaps you wanted.

One last thing, when you reave the new halyards, do it near power boaters. The last time I changed halyards I had a guy approach me afterwards to express how interesting and quick the process went.

 

[jssailem]

Very nice explanation and links Dave (@dlochner ). A true record of Seamanship for all.
Thanks.

 

[Ward H]

Since a Flemish Eye is a cover only splice, it has little strength but is adequate for pulling the line through the mast. It also makes for a neater end than a butane end splice.

Last spring I went to APSLTD for my new low stretch halyards. As Dave said, they are a great resource for learning about the various lines. I had them put reaving eyes on each end of the halyards. I use the halyard knot to attach the shackles and if I have to cut one end I still have the eye on the other end and as Dave said, it does look better than melted ends. (I’d rather have done my own splicing but just didn’t have the time last year.)

BTW, I went with 5/16” halyards on my C30.

 

[Meriachee]

I was going to suggest that I rather like using the glue impregnated heat shrink at the end of halyards, as it doesn’t come off, and gives you pretty good indication when you’re at the end, but I thought I’d be ignored, so I’ll just say I had a Flemish Eye once, but the meds cleared it up.
Please feel free to resume the yelling kiddies.

 

[dlochner]

I’ll just say I had a Flemish Eye once, but the meds cleared it up.

I'm glad you're feeling better now.

 

[Ward H]

I rather like using the glue impregnated heat shrink at the end of halyards, as it doesn’t come off,

Interesting idea. I’ll give it a try.