Are we too tolerant of boatyard culture?

[sailnoproblem]

Well I can speak from both sides. I owned a Marine Aluminum fabricating business, and am a boat owner. As a fabricator I learned quickly to stay away from Anal customers. If a customer was always looking over our shoulder we had tricks to stop him. Has anyone heard of "welding flash".
Every job we did was designed and signed off on by the customer with a agreed price. As changes came the price went up, with the customers knowledge. However sometime you just cannot please some, so yes I had problems. I feel the majority of our customers were pleased with the product.
90% of our customers were Sport Fisherman, so I guess they were easy to please.
As a boat owner I am lucky enough to be able to do almost all my required repairs or maintenance myself as my boat is at a friends marina. If I have to have work done at another yard, I ask for recommendations from friends and fellow sailors before I commit to a specific place.
I agree with Will's story that his Dad told him, and agreed with the builder. I would have done the same.
I agree that there are shady yards, and that is a shame. Especially when a long time customer is taken advantage of. To me that just makes no sense. why would you do that to a loyal customer?

 

[Jacktar]

Kloudie, Bahia Mar is now owned by Marine Max, no more DIY at the yard. all contractors now and they provide the Prep h for the estimates and final bills, LOL.

 

[John Nantz]

Posters should quit asking the OP for the name of the yard and the details.
Why? Have you ever heard of slander? 'nuf said.

 

[jssailem]

John. While it is vile and slanderous to make up false statements about a person, you should have no fear if the statements are “true”.

“Slander”
the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation.​

 

[BrianRobin]

Posters should quit asking the OP for the name of the yard and the details.
Why? Have you ever heard of slander? 'nuf said.

Slander? Never heard of it, but then again I'm Canadian.

 

[TomY]

The OP sounds like his yard dropped the ball on communicating or something but we don't know their side.

I have a good relationship with the yard I deal with(mostly hauling and launching). The yards I hear about seem to be fair and respected in our area. You have to be a straight shooter in a small community if you intend to stay in business. That doesn't mean I don't hear from unhappy customers.

Yard work is never cheap but I don't know too many owners that are getting rich on boat yards. All the paperwork is really worth little compared to the trust you either have or don't with a customer. If the owner trusts the yard most surprises and problems can be avoided through communication.

I've worked as an independent contractor all my life. We certainly are not the most popular group!

It's a two way street, though. It's not unusual to me to try to find a tradesmen to do something for someone. Then I find out,...."Oh no, Bill so and so,...he's asked me for countless estimates, I'm always too expensive".

Or,..."Joe ?, we won't work on his boat anymore. Nice guy but never happy with our work." These are skilled, fair business people I've worked with and trust.

Long, long,....long before Angie's List, the reverse existed. I run into that dealing with other contractors and subcontractors, painters, plumbers, tree workers, boat yards, you name it. The other side of the story.

Some clients are never happy with 'the work'. Very few of us, are happy with todays hourly rates that reflect the cost of doing business. I only work with people I trust. I've had only a few formal contracts.

 

[jssailem]

If you do the work yourself then you know the quality of their work and to whom to file complaints.

If you hire someone to do the work then you become the Quality Control manager and it is best to establish the expectations in writing up front. To include performance standards and durability warranty. That is difficult for most folk. You also need to inspect the process.
The challenge comes when one does not know the task details so leaves this up to the professional. That is where the gap and the rub come in.

 

[thinwater]

“Slander”

the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation.​

Actually...
li·bel /ˈlībəl/noun
noun: libel; plural noun: libels
1.A published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation.
synonyms: defamation, defamation of character, character assassination, calumny, misrepresentation, scandalmongering;

 

[markwbird]

Just to reset. The point of the post was to compare experiences not to trash a particular boatyard (although, in my opinion, they probably deserve it). The problem is that I was given an unrealistically low estimate (by the yard owner) and once the work started I was basically told I was stupid to have thought I could get it for that price. I was told I was "dreaming". This is not a one time incident with this yard. I know at least two other boat owners who have had the same experience. My question to the Forum is: Do we give too much of a pass to boatyards that we would not give to other vendors?

 

[Meriachee]

If you do the work yourself then you know the quality of their work and to whom to file complaints.

They never return my call, but the quality is up there..

 

[Will Gilmore]

My question to the Forum is: Do we give a too much of a pass to boatyards that we would not give to other vendors?

The short answer is NO. We do the same with other vendors of the same type of service. I have had good and bad experiences with auto mechanics. The larger dealerships being just as bad, if not worse. I've hired contractors in construction, appliance repair, computer installation and repair, logging, landscaping and custom art (jewelry, painting, etc. ) all have the potential to do well or do poorly by me. Most do well and I really regret the times they don't. On the few occasions I've had bad experiences it is just a bad one-off service that has nothing to do with the quality of their regular work, sometimes it is poor because they are in the habit of 'getting away with it', and sometimes I was at fault for poor communications or misunderstanding of the limitations. I have also been at the service and of things as a cabinetmaker and subcontractor. I've taken the blame for other people's work because I was responsible, I've failed to pay attention or consider the limitations of my client, I've lost expensive materials through bad measurements and even a broken tie-down on the highway. It is how you respond to these failures that makes the biggest difference to me. I don't have time to do everything myself and often am forced to rely on the craftsmanship and honesty of others. Boatyard operators are no different than anyone service. We, as customers, can't help but feel a little helpless when we are forced to pay their high prices. They make mistakes, they hire poor quality help, they have customers who fail to pay, they have to absorb all that loss and probably work close to the margins.
I could go on and on about customers writing bad checks, refusing to pay, claiming damages where there were none, making excuses to why I should wait for next week or the week after that. It doesn't matter whether I'm the contractor, the customer or the employee, Those problems exist everywhere. We tolerate them because we have to and they do the same for us.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[jssailem]

@markwbird I have had several experiences with yard workers. I start by classifying them as BMW's (Boat Marine Worker - who sometimes charge fees like the car dealer) One endangered my boat and life by his negligence and my trust that he was doing what he said. He got a bad yelp review and I have no problem telling folk who ask that I had a bad experience and would not use his services again. Perhaps qualified to change oil or clean the deck - with monitoring observation, but not a skilled Diesel Mechanic as claimed.

On the other hand I trust my Rigger with my life. I praise his work and would recommend him to anyone who asks.

Am I more trusting of Boat Yard then ATT workers billing me for Cell Service. No.
But then I believe Trust is Earned.

 

[MitchM]

making an honest statement about poor work is neither slander (if verbal) nor libel (written.) i rely on truthful statements about shoddy contractors with F reviews from angies' list , next door.com and BBB. why not sailboat owners forum ?

 

[Meriachee]

Providing this forum as a b@tch platform to hound on suppliers seriously detracts from the premise. There’s really no need for it. If you have an issue with a product or service, take it up with them.

 

[John Nantz]

making an honest statement about poor work is neither slander (if verbal) nor libel (written.) i rely on truthful statements about shoddy contractors with F reviews from angies' list , next door.com and BBB. why not sailboat owners forum ?

Mitch - while there may not be a law against it, in my opinion (and that's all it is), because I would never like to waste time and get stressed out, I'd really avoid a courtroom at all costs, hence the original suggestion to avoid trying to encourage someone to reveal something that may turn around and bite them, even if it is/was true, at least in the eye of the beholder. It very well may be true but an attorney may find a way to see it otherwise so just trying to be helpful here.

I like the OPs (MarkWBird's) post #69 and "Just to do a reset"...

Check this BBC article out: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...alf-YEARS-court-spends-12-000-legal-fees.html

 

[Simon Sexton]

I've discovered that if you want a specific service done, you've got to tell them, "Listen, I only want THIS done, and NOTHING ELSE." I figured that out last time I tried to get a simple hull job done.
"Oh, you've got a transducer leak, we're gonna fix that."
"No, you're not."
"Ah, I see your bilge pump bladder is torn, we'll just go ahead and add that to the-"
"NO, you're not."
"Hey, Mr. Sexton, while we're at it, we figured me might just go ahead and get some electrical work d-"
"DO. NOT. TOUCH. ANYTHING ELSE. BESIDES. THE HULL PAINT."

Surprisingly, they stuck the original plan after that.