Brilliant... when I am pulling in I look for my mast to be abeam of a certain point before turning. Granted it is not 1/3 distance but gives me a reference point for turning. I completely forgot about that.
As the boat turns...
- Thread starter Brian D
- Start date
Brian... Every boat will have it's Pivot Point. I guess that it will be just aft of the Mast. The Logic is that the Naval Architect who designed the hull located the mast about at the pivot point as to cause the boat to go forward when the force of the sail flows down through the mast to the keel. Kind of like the point where Air meets Water.
Then I test the theory. It usually reveals its self. pretty quickly...
@jon hansen's quote.. "Practice. Practice......" I thought that is how you get to Carnegie Hall. Brian is trying to get into his slip.
Then I test the theory. It usually reveals its self. pretty quickly...
@jon hansen's quote.. "Practice. Practice......" I thought that is how you get to Carnegie Hall. Brian is trying to get into his slip.
I've been practicing for both Carnegie Hall and my slip. LOL 
a lot sailors drive their boats like my mother when she's on the houston freeways. you need to push back on the conditions for best control. well that works right till you put it in it's parking spot. speed and contact do not blend well.
first we tie up next to a dock , not to it.
remember when you were ten and had 20'' bike and you saw that cool trick of flying into were you were stopping and you hit the rear brake hard, the rear tire skidded, you went hard over with the front wheel, put one leg down, spun, and presto, stopped. well, it was awkward at first, but with practice it became habit. you could do it on gravel, on pavement, on grass, with slight variations. it got so you did not even think about it.
well, backing and filling is a controlled skid/slide if you will. wind, current, crew all factored in. put that vessel where it needs to go with authority.
same with an 800' ship
go to an open area and practice driving along then hard over to starboard with the wheel/tiller while shifting to a hard reverse. she will spin. then as the spinning momentum is there , repeat.
soon you can do the Captain Ron stunt. but not to often
first we tie up next to a dock , not to it.
remember when you were ten and had 20'' bike and you saw that cool trick of flying into were you were stopping and you hit the rear brake hard, the rear tire skidded, you went hard over with the front wheel, put one leg down, spun, and presto, stopped. well, it was awkward at first, but with practice it became habit. you could do it on gravel, on pavement, on grass, with slight variations. it got so you did not even think about it.
well, backing and filling is a controlled skid/slide if you will. wind, current, crew all factored in. put that vessel where it needs to go with authority.
same with an 800' ship
go to an open area and practice driving along then hard over to starboard with the wheel/tiller while shifting to a hard reverse. she will spin. then as the spinning momentum is there , repeat.
soon you can do the Captain Ron stunt. but not to often
An adult version of that with possibly the worst idea ever, the mountain bike, led to my shoulder reconstruction. Or was it the face plant at Breckenridge? I don't remember except that both hurt and now I can't raise my arm over my head.
Hi Brian, different boat here but wrote an article awhile ago about what I've learned maneuvering our boat in certain conditions. Many factors come into play whether your boat responds in a similar way, but worth a shot. The estimated pivot point on our boat is the keel, likely similar with yours, that is if yours is a fin type. That article here: https://hunter.sailboatowners.com/mods.php?task=article&mid=45&aid=5998&mn=42
Nice article Terry. There are several types of boat involved here. Inboard where the prop is forward of the rudder, outboard where the prop is aft of the rudder. and boats with prop parallel to the rudder. Each behaves differently. And yes, as you said, one has to learn how the boat responds to prop/rudder and keel type.
In my case, I have an outboard (prop aft of rudder). I can do a back and fill, but it responds differently and I have to be more cognizant of boat location as my dime shifts. LOL
Good advice though, Terry. Although I know how my boat responds I still need to go out often and "practice".
In my case, I have an outboard (prop aft of rudder). I can do a back and fill, but it responds differently and I have to be more cognizant of boat location as my dime shifts. LOL
Good advice though, Terry. Although I know how my boat responds I still need to go out often and "practice".
NotCook
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- Dec 29, 2008
- 805
With a fin keel, yes. Not with a full keel. In reverse the rudder has virtually no impact at all with a full keel. If you want the stern to go in a direction other than straight back, you have to put it in forward and kick the stern in the direction you want it to go without starting forward motion, then shifting back into reverse and continuing back in the new direction. Likewise, this has minor impact on the bow, which will remain basically stationary, until you swing the stern around to point it in a new direction. Full keels are a pain to back. Add a crosswind at all and the stakes go up exponentially.
We have a bow thruster, but you can’t count on it to hold you against a crosswind ( it at least not us, with nearly 40 tons displacement.) Best to assume you don’t have one, as it will rundown quickly trying to hold against a crosswind.
NotCook
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- Dec 29, 2008
- 805
The problem with the Captain Ton stunt is that the engine could die right when you need to go into reverse, or you shift from forward to reverse too quickly, don’t give the prop and shaft a chance to stop turning in foreword before slamming it into reverse, and you break your drive saver. Either of those happens and you are hitting the dock with full speed. We like to always approach a dock with the assumption that we don’t have reverse to slow us down. So, at what speed do you want to hit the dock? That’s the speed that we approach the dock.
When I was 13, there was a very cute little blond I really wanted to impress. She and 5 other girls were standing in the street in a circle, talking. I came barreling down the street on my bike straight at them, with the intent of locking up the brakes nd skidding up to them and stopping just short. In I came, crammed hard on the hand brakes, and the front lever broke off in my hand. With no front brakes, I slammed directly into you know who, cutting her leg open. Not the impression I had in mind making on her. I apply that experience to approaching a dock.
Before I had my sleep apnea surgery, I asked the surgeon if I would be able to sign tenor after the surgery. He said, “I don’t see why not.” I said, “Great, cuz I never could before!”
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the Captain Ron stunt, is just that , a stunt. learning the wide range of possibilities that your vessel can do out in open water is good to know. as i mentioned, "out in open water". if one were to try such a comedy movie stunt around other docks, and pull it off without slamming the dock, what would really happen is you would send a huge wave towards all the other vessels irritating all other boat owners. prolly get you punched in the nose as well.
however, having a wide range of skills that you have become well practiced in will increase the probability that you will never hurt your boat docking.
pilots need to land planes in wide variety conditions. so they practice surviving worst case scenarios, allot. well we sailors need to practice allot too.
if you buy a new boat i suggest you practice docking 20 times with lots of help before you go out to sail for the first time. pilots do not take off till totally trained on how to land. yet newbee sailors seem to think it's ok to skip that docking practice part. bad choice i say.
however, having a wide range of skills that you have become well practiced in will increase the probability that you will never hurt your boat docking.
pilots need to land planes in wide variety conditions. so they practice surviving worst case scenarios, allot. well we sailors need to practice allot too.
if you buy a new boat i suggest you practice docking 20 times with lots of help before you go out to sail for the first time. pilots do not take off till totally trained on how to land. yet newbee sailors seem to think it's ok to skip that docking practice part. bad choice i say.
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engine failure and docking: the first line to the dock, set and ready on the vessel of my boats is a three strand nylon line i call a spring line. it's my emergency brake. it is ready for every single dock i ever make. its the first line to the dock every time i dock. i have one crew thats only job is to secure the spring line, every time i dock. not the bow line, not the stern line. the emergency spring is the most important line. this is how i was trained. the spring line/emergency line is always first. this is what i teach. as i approach the dock the first thing i'm looking for is the best cleat for the spring line and then call it out to the crew.
my boat hook is 'on the ready' for every dock i make, never stowed when docking.
aeolus does not have rub rails like a motorboat. i'm very careful. but i'm not slow either. i'm deliberate.
i'm highly trained which means i have practiced allot.
practice ,practice, practice,......
if my engine fails, i have a backup plan already set up. there will be no hitting the dock with my vessels.
my boat hook is 'on the ready' for every dock i make, never stowed when docking.
aeolus does not have rub rails like a motorboat. i'm very careful. but i'm not slow either. i'm deliberate.
i'm highly trained which means i have practiced allot.
practice ,practice, practice,......
if my engine fails, i have a backup plan already set up. there will be no hitting the dock with my vessels.
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A pilot knows he will run out of fuel and crash if he doesn't land. Some of us sailors just hate the idea of having to return to the dock... EVER, so why practice docking?
-Will (Dragonfly)
This is the start to many a story with a bad outcome.
I call it the money line. That's the one I want or I want the crew to make first. The rest is just details. I'm sure there are away docks that are non conducive to this but as a rule it works very well.
My boat is a one trick pony at the docks. Coming in slow while turning to port, applying reverse - depending upon the amount and time - will result in a counter clockwise rotation of various speed, and stop.
That's it, that's all she'll do. The trick to the trick,... is to find ways to use that single motion.
I'll walk the boat out and off the dock, with pride.
I once watched - in painful slow motion - a 100' schooner coming into dock-dead slow, lose it's reverse gear.
I'll never forget the 20 or 30 seconds of chaos in the harbor as hands, both onboard and on the docks, tried to manhandle situation. They could not.
Docking up, who can resist watching this spectator sport?
That's it, that's all she'll do. The trick to the trick,... is to find ways to use that single motion.
I'll walk the boat out and off the dock, with pride.
I once watched - in painful slow motion - a 100' schooner coming into dock-dead slow, lose it's reverse gear.
I'll never forget the 20 or 30 seconds of chaos in the harbor as hands, both onboard and on the docks, tried to manhandle situation. They could not.
Docking up, who can resist watching this spectator sport?
NotCook
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- Dec 29, 2008
- 805
That would be the one that rips the cleat out off the dock, right before we take out the finger pier, right? Maybe I’m jaded by driving a 40 ton boat. I still don’t want to approach a dock by faster than I’m willing to hit it.
Then there are those on the dock who want to “help” by taking a line. I try to avoid the temptation of throwing them one. Invariably, if I ask them to cleat the line, they say, “I’ve got it” while holding the line in their hands instead of clearing it. About that time, as the wind blows the boat away from the dock after a perfect approach, is when the boat drags them right off the dock if they are foolish enough to not let go (or cleat it)! No, you don’t “got it” with a 40 ton boat in a breeze...