Which Trailer sailer (cruiser) -Under 2000 lbs to consider?

[ArchivalAudio]

Currently an owner of a 1977 CBC Buccaneer 18, is a quick daysailer... but a bit too squirrely for myself, wife and 8 year old son. Looking to upgrade to a "cruisable" or at least over night-able trailer sailer. Need to be under 2000 pounds including trailer / motor, we don't want to purchase a new vehicle too.... . Must be able to accommodate a stove/sink, and porta pottie So far I've come up with:
West Wight Potter - Don't really like the tug boat look of it or the dagger board that is in the middle of the cabin.
Hunter 19-2 - not 100% thrilled with water ballast, also looks kind of dumpy.
Starwind 19 - looks nice and might be the ticket
Precision 18 - not really for cruising and limited cabin space.

We really like the "new Model" Catalina 22 (1986 to 1995), but it's just too heavy for us to tow.
Also the Precision 21 is really nice too, still a bit tooo heavy.

We are looking for something that sails nice (or okay) is trailerable and can accommodate 3 -4 people overnight or for a short cruise and will be good for our family of 3.

We are located in Eugene OR

Any other suggestions for other possibilities would be appreciated!

Thanks--Ian

 

[FastOlson]

Too bad it has to sleep more than 2..... The Ranger 20 would be perfect. Fast and easy to sail. Even has positive flotation.
We owned one for years, but did put extra sleepers in the cockpit (we had the factory-option boom tent). Sailed it a LOT and loved it.

 

[jssailem]

I had a Montgomery 15 could sleep 2 in the cabin (friendly fit) and two in the cockpit on the bench seats. 750 lbs. It was like camping in a small pup tent. If it rained then it would be like everyone crowding into a VW Beatle. Or you can erect a boom tent and cover the cockpit. Cooking was in the cockpit on a camp stove.
They also make a 17 and a 23 footer. But each bigger size adds more pounds.
The Sage Marine company make some new boats in the same vane.

 

[ArchivalAudio]

I appreciate the suggestion. I'm particularly not fond of the look of the Montgomery's and the cabins would be cramped for a family of 3 . We tow with my 2004 VW TDI (diesel) beetle. It has European Jetta sedan heavy duty towing springs Bilstein Heavy duty shocks and struts and VR 6 springs in front it rides about 2" high than stock and a malone 1.5 tune on the engine, the turbo kicks in quicker and has added about 20 hp and increased the foot pounds of torque. it's small but tows well. The boat would need to weigh max about 1600 to 1700 pounds max to keep with in the tow limits, lighter would be better . we do tow a 8x10" teardrop trailer and load it up , the car can handle it well.

 

[jssailem]

I had a VW Vanagon 1989 with the water cooled boxer engine. 4 speed transmission. Trailed the the 15 footer all over the Pacific NW. The small lapstrake boat was very sound and quick. Quicker than the West Potter in head to head racing. But boat looks are a part of the reason to buy. The towing limit is a big part of the challenge for what you are asking.

 

[ArchivalAudio]

I had a VW Vanagon 1989 with the water cooled boxer engine. 4 speed transmission. Trailed the the 15 footer all over the Pacific NW. The small lapstrake boat was very sound and quick. Quicker than the West Potter in head to head racing. But boat looks are a part of the reason to buy. The towing limit is a big part of the challenge for what you are asking.

Yes, of course... I totally understand our limitations... we need a boat big enough for three. Okay Ill re-investigate a Montgomery 17' . I just can't get over how the hull is faux lap wood strips.... makes me want to stick woodgrained contact paper strips on it. It sure don't look sleek, but if it sails well then maybe I (we) can get over it. Thanks for the suggestion...

 

[jssailem]

The laps are more functional than for looks. Manages the splash. They are tender to about 20 degrees heel. Then they just ride. Easy boat to sail. Just a 17foot boat. Sage made some improvements in the cabin layout. Sailing solo it was fine for the Columbia and the many lakes and reservoirs that dot the Oregon landscape. The 15 footer had positive flotation. I never did but could have filled it with water and it would have kept floating.
I found I could sail up the Detroit reservoir and pull to shore then set up camp. With the short keel, raised rudder and retracted center board it floated in 18 inches of water.
There was a 20 something guy back in the 70’s that sailed his M15 LA to Hawaii. 30 days. Think he left the boat there and flew back.

 

[ArchivalAudio]

The laps are more functional than for looks. Manages the splash. They are tender to about 20 degrees heel. Then they just ride. Easy boat to sail. Just a 17foot boat. Sage made some improvements in the cabin layout. Sailing solo it was fine for the Columbia and the many lakes and reservoirs that dot the Oregon landscape. The 15 footer had positive flotation. I never did but could have filled it with water and it would have kept floating.
I found I could sail up the Detroit reservoir and pull to shore then set up camp. With the short keel, raised rudder and retracted center board it floated in 18 inches of water.
There was a 20 something guy back in the 70’s that sailed his M15 LA to Hawaii. 30 days. Think he left the boat there and flew back.

Indeed. Very cool. I have noticed the older ones did not appear to have a sink or stove, but some later versions before the sage did... information out there is not quite vast. Mostly we would be sailing out on Fern Ridge with some occasional trailer trips elsewhere....

 

[Ted]

Your wish list is a tough one. A boat large enough to have the cabin accommodations that you are looking for will most likely be too heavy or the construction will be marginal at best. A 2000 pound limit including a trailer, outboard and all your gear probably brings your maximum target boat displacement close to 1500 pounds. You probably won't like the way that size/displacement handles fresh winds and chop. The Precision 21 would have been my recommendation but I noticed that you have already ruled it out because of the weight. I'm curious to see what you end up with.

 

[Will Gilmore]

I would recommend you look at the O'Day Mariner 19. https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/mariner-19-cb It is still in production as a Stuart Mariner out of Rockland Maine http://www.stuartmarine.com. They're built on the Rhodes 19 hulls. The 2+2 has a 'V' berth for two plus two side berths half under the cockpit. There is a sink and a spot for a port-a-potty. You will find it cramped (no head room), but livable for long weekends.
The Mariner Class Assoc. is active and there may be a fleet in your area, although most of the activities are in New England. It is $15 a year to become a member. Nate Bayrauther's site for his boat Orion will tell you everything you want to know. Www.mariner1922.com He hosts an annual rendezvous that takes participants out for a long weekend of onboard camping/sailing. They make boom tents and even rig up cockpit showers.
The associations site also has a lot about the Mariner to help you. However, only members can access the forums.
www.usmariner.com

The other boat you should look at is ComPac. The ComPac 16.

Smaller, but a lot of boat for its size. I think they only sleep 2 though. The ComPacs also have an active following. Probably bigger than the Mariner. The ComPac 16 was a hugely popular boat and their owners love them. There is a larger model, the ComPac 19 that sleeps 4, but it displaces 2000lbs. They are worth checking out. They are beamy with heavy cbs so they sail more upright, than other boats in their class. Considered to be highly seaworthy.

-Will (Dragonfly, Mariner #2632)

 

[ArchivalAudio]

Your wish list is a tough one. A boat large enough to have the cabin accommodations that you are looking for will most likely be too heavy or the construction will be marginal at best. A 2000 pound limit including a trailer, outboard and all your gear probably brings your maximum target boat displacement close to 1500 pounds. You probably won't like the way that size/displacement handles fresh winds and chop. The Precision 21 would have been my recommendation but I noticed that you have already ruled it out because of the weight. I'm curious to see what you end up with.

Understandably... we have limits... budget limits to something we don't need a new vehicle for. In the future we will upgrade vehicle then boat, and onward At some point I'd enjoy a live-aboard cruiser for retirement....

 

[Will Gilmore]

A 2000 pound limit including a trailer, outboard and all your gear probably brings your maximum target boat displacement close to 1500 pounds.

There ya go. The Mariner fits that bill. The older ones with either a keel or an iron cb were MORC (Midget Ocean Racing Club) certified for self- righting.
-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[ArchivalAudio]

I really appreciate all the input and ideas and suggestions...Hmmm I remember Mariners from when I was a kid... Upon looking at them (to me) they seem to have too much cockpit and not enough cabin. Really only a cutty cabin and a Centerboard trunk diving that space even smaller... looks like sleeping accommodations for only two.

We have discussed getting a new vehicle to tow a larger more ideal boat, however its not really a viable option at this time. It's possible we could get a larger boat and only tow in 2 x a year and get a slip, but for now we'd like to work with what we have and vist some other locations occasionally,. Fern Ridge is small but only 25 minutes from us. ::: Fern Ridge Reservoir- Reservoir in Oregon- Fern Ridge Reservoir is a reservoir on the Long Tom River in the U.S. state of Oregon. The reservoir is located approximately 12 miles west of Eugene on Oregon Route- 126. Area: 14.06 mi² Surface elevation: 370′ Length: 4.474 mi Mean depth: 11.15′ Outflow location: Long Tom River Inflow source: Long Tom River

 

[ArchivalAudio]

I would recommend you look at the O'Day Mariner 19. https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/mariner-19-cb It is still in production as a Stuart Mariner out of Rockland Maine http://www.stuartmarine.com. They're built on the Rhodes 19 hulls. The 2+2 has a 'V' berth for two plus two side berths half under the cockpit. There is a sink and a spot for a port-a-potty. You will find it cramped (no head room), but livable for long weekends.
The Mariner Class Assoc. is active and there may be a fleet in your area, although most of the activities are in New England. It is $15 a year to become a member. Nate Bayrauther's site for his boat Orion will tell you everything you want to know. Www.mariner1922.com He hosts an annual rendezvous that takes participants out for a long weekend of onboard camping/sailing. They make boom tents and even rig up cockpit showers.
The associations site also has a lot about the Mariner to help you. However, only members can access the forums.
www.usmariner.com

The other boat you should look at is ComPac. The ComPac 16.

Smaller, but a lot of boat for its size. I think they only sleep 2 though. The ComPacs also have an active following. Probably bigger than the Mariner. The ComPac 16 was a hugely popular boat and their owners love them. There is a larger model, the ComPac 19 that sleeps 4, but it displaces 2000lbs. They are worth checking out. They are beamy with heavy cbs so they sail more upright, than other boats in their class. Considered to be highly seaworthy.

-Will (Dragonfly, Mariner #2632)

The Compac Legacy sloop looks almost big enough and a good candidate... The suncat a bit smaller... The Eclipse would be nice but its 2200 lbs. most of these seem to cost a bit more than some other boats. I totally understand its a quality build thing.
Again thanks for suggestions.

 

[Will Gilmore]

You're right about the larger cockpit, but the Mariner sleeps 4. For about $3500 for one in good sailing condition, there aren't many other boats that weigh in at 1400 lbs you can take camping..

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Ted]

We have discussed getting a new vehicle to tow a larger more ideal boat, however its not really a viable option at this time.

If you are only going to tow your new boat a few times a year, how about renting a vehicle when you need it that is capable enough to tow a larger boat. It's cheaper than buying a new car/truck.

 

[RussC]

I think your dreaming the impossible dream, as many sailors do.
we've been through quite a few small boats, given the relative few years we've been sailing, but by FAR the best compromise small boat so far has been our Vagabond 17. small, but it feels like a much larger boat when sailing. only 950lb displacement, seated headroom in cabin, sink, porta pot area, very respectable performance for it's size, 350lb swing keel for stability, and a kick up rudder. initial stability is hard to come by in a small boat, which is why I've had a hard time finding one my wife tolerates, but the V17 is great, and she enjoys it, so life is good. The V17 also sails very well on main alone, if desired. plus it sails well with keel up when your in shallow waters (like Fern ridge ). has a decent size v-berth and two 1/4 berths, so sleeping 3-4 in the cabin is possible for close friends .
That being said, we also have, and love, our Mac25 (2100b displacement) that's our go-to boat for overnighters. we keep the V17 for day trips because it sets up super fast etc. (20 min), which is actually the main reason we have two boats to begin with .

decent sailing days are few and far between in the winter months around here, but if you're ever down south (Grants Pass) you're welcome to stop by and look ours over.

Also very maneuverable for water fights with the power boaters

 

[ArchivalAudio]

If you are only going to tow your new boat a few times a year, how about renting a vehicle when you need it that is capable enough to tow a larger boat. It's cheaper than buying a new car/truck.

Thanks Ted, we have thought about and looked into this and in our location enterprise is the only rental agency that will rent tow vehicles about $130 a day + milage. This would mean we need a slip which is not out of the question, but apparently there is a waiting list. we can store the boat at our home for free..., but a slip would let us sail away more easily.

If we were to rent a tow vehicle - we would also need one to purchase the boat - as there are usually never any ideal choices anywhere near Eugene OR. Many I see are on the east coast, New York, New Jersey, Georgia, Florida, or Texas Oklahoma... etc Occasionally I see some in Idaho or Montana (etc) only 10 to 12 hours away...

If we went this route as noted in my OP We really like the "new Model" Catalina 22 (1986 to 1995)
I have seen that the Precision 21, according to their website is 2235 lbs. including trailer... of course this doesn't not include gear, or a motor/fuel etc. http://www.precisionboatworks.com/boats/p21/specifications21.php I's possible we could tow it for the short distance we need to . But it seems most are located on the east coast , not far from where they are manufactured in Florida. We will be in Florida just after the new year for a wedding and will literally be in the area... I've though about contacting them for a tour of their faculty which they claim tis a bout 45 minutes.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

Buccaneer

None of the pocket cruisers will come up to your sailing performance expectations. The Buccaneer might be "squirrely" but it's fast and fun. You've been spoiled. I think you should probably keep what you have, or move up to a boat that's bigger than you can trailer with your car (maybe hire someone with a big SUV for seasonal hauling/launch). That towing threshold is a hurdle that's making your other requirements impossible, IMHO.
Also, a big leap in size is a lot cheaper over time than gradually trading up. Go for your ideal.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

Thanks Ted, we have thought about and looked into this and in our location enterprise is the only rental agency that will rent tow vehicles about $130 a day + milage. This would mean we need a slip which is not out of the question, but apparently there is a waiting list. we can store the boat at our home for free..., but a slip would let us sail away more easily.

IMHO, put yourself on the waiting list. You can then do the rental or hire "a guy" to tow it seasonally for winter storage. Besides, trailer-sailing is no fun during setup and take-down, especially on a hot humid day. Much better to step aboard and sail.