Coast Guard Minimum Equipment for 17' sailboat, no motor

Parsons · Oct 5, 2018

Your summary appears correct. I suggest reading the US Power Squadron list as it is easier to understand the the USCG. http://wow.uscgaux.info/content.php?unit=V-DEPT&category=virtual-safety-check
Also, your local Power Squadron can give your boat a courtesy safety check for free on the trailer and save you trouble - https://www.usps.org/d1/vessel_safety_check.htm There's no fines or obligation to fix anything, but it's wise to get the safety stuff right. Remember, these legal requirements are bare minimum. I've also found that stuff sitting in the bottom of a small boat over the years tends to not work when you really need it, so test it out on occasion. Happy sailing.

dlochner · Oct 5, 2018

Shorefun said:
It reads like I am supposed to have Nav lights?? I have a Hunter 170.

Only if out after dark. There are battery operated ones that use suction cups. Carry these if you expect to be out at dusk or later.

Shorefun said:
Anyone in the Atlantic City NJ area wanting to sell some nice used PFD's that allow for lots of movement on a daysailer at a good deal? The square ones that came with the boat are not going to cut it and I will insist all wear them.

Buy some new ones. Defender has youth PFDs for under $20, the vest kind, not the ugly orange ones that no one likes. https://www.defender.com/category.jsp?name=youth-pfds-50-90-lbs&path=-1|135|2290066&id=2290080

31seahorse · Oct 5, 2018

Hello Shorefun, I sent you a PM this morning.

Rick Webb · Oct 5, 2018

A boat less than 7 meters a flashlight is all that is required if the normal lights are not practicable. In other words no need to add an electrical system just to run lights. Good luck finding any suction cup nav lights that are Coast Guard approved.

Visual distress signals (flares) are only required outside the line of demarcation unless you are in a body of water with an opening of more than three (might be two, I'd have to look it up) miles out to sea. Flares are fairly expensive and expire so look at that one closely. A handheld VHF or a waterproof case for a cell phone may be a better purchase. A cell phone is not a perfect replacement for a VHF as often there is lots of help to summon close by if you need it but unless you know their cell number you cant reach out to them a VHF will.

If you are going to need some type of VDS look into the battery powered lights and like all your battery powered equipment on the boat remove the batteries when in storage to prevent them leaking and destroying your equipment. Do not bother with the 12 gauge pistol type flares they burn for a very short time and do not go that high. The handheld flares are much brighter and burn for a considerable length of time.

You have quite a list of equipment to purchase. West Marine (if you are going that route) offers a discount to folks who have just purchased a boat and are buying safety gear, worth looking into.

A boating safety class from the Power Squadron, Coast Guard Auxiliary or the like would be a good idea as well. Eight years old may seem to be on the young side but I have taught the classes and often it is the young kids who pick up more than the adults so it would not be a wasted effort.

You are asking all the right questions to get a great start.

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Oct 5, 2018

Re PFDs... Not sure what the "square" ones are...but you do need a throwable and about 50' of yellow poly line. Those are square cushions about 4" thick that you can sit on till you need it.

Shorefun said:
Hopefully I do not have any sanitation discharge over the side.

Actually that's perfectly legal as long as goes directly from you into the water, or while IN the water (in which case the throwable could come in handy to hang onto while you pull yourself back to the boat). It's only illegal to put it into ANY container first and "discharge" ("includes, but is not limited to, any spilling, leaking, pumping, pouring, emitting, emptying or dumping") it over the side.
Peggie--

Will Gilmore · Oct 5, 2018

Peggie Hall HeadMistress said:
It's only illegal to put it into ANY container first and "discharge" ("includes, but is not limited to, any spilling, leaking, pumping, pouring, emitting, emptying or dumping") it over the side.

Peggie,
How does that translate to a direct discharge head? Is the head and its plumbing considered an interim container?
I think the are varying local codes to be considered, as well.

-Will (Dragonfly)

BobbyFunn · Oct 5, 2018

Kayaking life vests are decent for sailing if you dont want the inshore inflatable ones.

Another oversight by hunter 170 designers...17 foot boat with no storage for safety gear...in a boat that flips..with plenty of hull space for storage. Total CF.

Anchor and flares and mirror and misc spares and boat paperwork go in orange walmart drybox. Drybox is tied to cuddycabin pad eye.

Oars, fenders, docklines go in laundry bag that is also clipped to cuddy cabin pad eyes.

Reefing lines, flaking straps, docking lines are bungied to the cuddy cabin pad eye.

Throw life cushion thrown in cuddy. Everyone used to fight over that since it was so soft. Now i velcro a camping pad across the benches.

Will Gilmore · Oct 5, 2018

BobbyFunn said:
Total CF.

I can not, for the life of me, figure out what 'CF' means. I take it, nothing good.

-Will (Dragonfly)

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Oct 5, 2018

Will Gilmore said:
Peggie,
How does that translate to a direct discharge head? Is the head and its plumbing considered an interim container?
I think the are varying local codes to be considered, as well.-Will (Dragonfly)

Any toilet is an installed device "intended to receive, retain or discharge human body waste"..which makes it illegal to directly discharge waste that passes through it ...which is why federal law requires holding tanks or --in waters where legal--USCG certified treatment devices in all US waters. No state "or local subdivision thereof" can enact any local codes can supersede federal law see TITLE 46 , Subtitle I , Subtitle II , Part B , CHAPTER 43 ) ...that was tried in Fl when several municipalities tried to make boats use holding tanks in municipal harbors and anchorages in waters where the discharge of treated waster is legal. States can only enact laws relating to enforcement of federal law...set fines, decide which state agency will be responsible for enforcement etc. However, MARINAS can make their own rules because marinas are private property (same as an apartment ...the management owns the building, but the apartment is the tenant's private property) and there are few well-intentioned but misguided marinas in waters where the discharge of treated waste is legal who require boats to use holding tanks in their property even though the discharge from treatment devices is cleaner than the water in any marina.
You'll find the applicable requirements for boat owners in two parts of the CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) here: 33 CFR Part 159, Subpart A and 40 CFR PART 140--MARINE SANITATION DEVICE STANDARD, parts 1-3.
Don't make the mistake of wandering into other parts of those regs...it's easy find yourself up to your neck in the "weeds" in the parts that have nothing to do with the requirements for operators of recreational vessels. I can't count the number of times I've had to rescue an online debate started by someone who decided that the requirements for commercial vessels and/or equipment mfrs applied to his 36' trawler.
I now return this thread to its original topic. Re "CF"...several things come to mind, none of which are suitable for posting.
--Peggie

Roland5048 · Oct 5, 2018

Will Gilmore said:
How does that translate to a direct discharge head? Is the head and its plumbing considered an interim container?
I think the are varying local codes to be considered, as well.

Will, I believe the answer to your question is YES. If it first goes into the commode, it cannot, in most circumstances, be discharged overboard. That's the irony of all this. If it goes directly from you into the water, all is OK. Put something between you and the water, then all is not OK. Go figure!

Edit: Peggy was posting just before I hit 'post reply'. Now, back to our regular scheduled programming.

justsomeguy · Oct 5, 2018

Will Gilmore said:
I can not, for the life of me, figure out what 'CF' means. I take it, nothing good.

-Will (Dragonfly)

That would be "fuster-cluck".

Rick486 · Oct 5, 2018

justsomeguy said:
That would be "fuster-cluck".

Jacktar · Oct 5, 2018

Download the free app from the coast guard, it has the safety requirements survey, a fill-able boat profile and a submit button for emergency help that transmits your profile (description for location, contact info for you and shore side contacts)to the cg, and as a bonus a copy of the the colregs aka rules of the road. Free boat navi app will give you live time GPS and distance from objects on a google earth type background. All free, and if sailing you should also get Windy, free and gives you real time wind and wave info.

JimInPB · Oct 5, 2018

Will Gilmore said:
I can not, for the life of me, figure out what 'CF' means. I take it, nothing good.

-Will (Dragonfly)

You need to watch a Clint Eastwood movie called "Heartbreak Ridge" to get the full understanding of that reference.

JimInPB · Oct 5, 2018

Shorefun said:
I am looking over the list published by the CG (2012 from the CG site) and have some questions.

I assume with no motor I do not need a fire extinguisher, is that correct? If I mount a motor I need a B-1.

For an outboard with no tank below decks, you are not required to have an extinguisher, but feel free to get one if you want. It's not a bad thing to have.

Shorefun said:
Visual signal devices. It says you need 3 day night pyro devices. OR substitute an Orange flag, am I reading this properly?

Flares are a high seas regulation. If you never go outside the inlet, you are not required to have them. unfortunately, not every waterborne law enforcement officer seems to know this. If you do not go out at night, you can have only day signals. Most people carry flares. A 4-pack at Walmart is about $25. I keep them in a waterproof container. If you do carry flares, they must be in date. If you have expired flares on board, that is a ticket waiting to be written. Check the dates when you buy them. If they don't have 2 years left, look elsewhere.

Shorefun said:
It reads like I am supposed to have Nav lights?? I have a Hunter 170.

If you think that you might be caught out after dark, get nav lights. I have a LED set that runs off of AAA batteries. I have yet to use them on my 170. I only take it out in the daylight. A sailboat that is less than 7 meters in length & moving less than 7 knots can be legal at night with just a flashlight on board, but it's not what you want to be caught doing if you can help it. If you only take the boat out in the daylight, you are not required to have any lights at all.

Shorefun said:
Hopefully I do not have any sanitation discharge over the side.

Peggy, our resident expert, has covered this well.

Shorefun said:
Anyone in the Atlantic City NJ area wanting to sell some nice used PFD's that allow for lots of movement on a daysailer at a good deal? The square ones that came with the boat are not going to cut it and I will insist all wear them.

Used PFDs? Really? Shop around a little. New ones are not that expensive.

Shorefun said:
FWIW, I am planning on getting a floating VHF with the GPS emergency position stuff. If my 8 and 14 year old want to go out on their own I want them found easy if something happens even if it is just the back bay.

Please be aware of two things. first, you need to register a MMSI number before the little red rescue button will work. Second, when you push the little red button, it tells the coast guard that you are asking to be rescued & you are willing to abandon you boat. If you want to be towed in, call Tow Boat US or Sea Tow instead. For something like $150 per year, you can buy towing insurance. After that, the tow is free for the year. A single tow can cost a lot more than that.

You will need to have a whistle ($2) or other sound producing device on board & accessible. You will also need a type 4 throwable flotation device that is immediately available on board, in addition to a life jacket for each person on board.

This is the cheat sheet version of the safety list - https://www.usps.org/national/vsc/conductvsc_files/USCGMinReq_2012.pdf

Ken Cross · Oct 5, 2018

You bring back fond memories of when we started sailing.

On a boat like yours, I'd consider adding a port-a-potty inside. They are pretty inexpensive and allow you to go out all day without returning to a facility. This isn't needed, but if you are a sailboat you can't get back super fast.
They should be easy to clean and you can empty it in your toilet at home once you're done for the day.

Ken

BobbyFunn · Oct 5, 2018

Ken Cross said:
On a boat like yours, I'd consider adding a port-a-potty inside.

There is no inside. An empty protein mix container does the trick too.

dlochner · Oct 6, 2018

BobbyFunn said:
There is no inside. An empty protein mix container does the trick too.

That may work, but it would be illegal to dump it over board. See Peggy's post:

Peggie Hall HeadMistress said:
Any toilet is an installed device "intended to receive, retain or discharge human body waste"..which makes it illegal to directly discharge waste that passes through it ...which is why federal law requires holding tanks or --in waters where legal--USCG certified treatment devices in all US waters. No state "or local subdivision thereof" can enact any local codes can supersede federal law see TITLE 46 , Subtitle I , Subtitle II , Part B , CHAPTER 43 ) ...that was tried in Fl when several municipalities tried to make boats use holding tanks in municipal harbors and anchorages in waters where the discharge of treated waster is legal. States can only enact laws relating to enforcement of federal law...set fines, decide which state agency will be responsible for enforcement etc. However, MARINAS can make their own rules because marinas are private property (same as an apartment ...the management owns the building, but the apartment is the tenant's private property) and there are few well-intentioned but misguided marinas in waters where the discharge of treated waste is legal who require boats to use holding tanks in their property even though the discharge from treatment devices is cleaner than the water in any marina.
You'll find the applicable requirements for boat owners in two parts of the CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) here: 33 CFR Part 159, Subpart A and 40 CFR PART 140--MARINE SANITATION DEVICE STANDARD, parts 1-3.
Don't make the mistake of wandering into other parts of those regs...it's easy find yourself up to your neck in the "weeds" in the parts that have nothing to do with the requirements for operators of recreational vessels. I can't count the number of times I've had to rescue an online debate started by someone who decided that the requirements for commercial vessels and/or equipment mfrs applied to his 36' trawler.
I now return this thread to its original topic. Re "CF"...several things come to mind, none of which are suitable for posting.
--Peggie

Ron20324 · Oct 6, 2018

Peggie Hall HeadMistress said:
...Actually that's perfectly legal as long as goes directly from you into the water, or while IN the water ...-

I'm working from memory here, but I believe earlier this year someone posted that the ban on dumping the head contents into the water is the same as dumping your own load into the water. Both the same, as you are dumping SEWAGE into the water- and that's a no-no! The regulations are to prevent dumping sewage in ANY way in any path. If you have something that says going into water to discharge yourself is legal, please post it. Crap is crap, no matter where it came from.