Sail Ties ... Just curious

dlochner · Sep 20, 2018

Several folks have written about having sail ties of different lengths. That just complicates things. Make all the sail ties long enough to hold the largest part of the sail. If there is extra length at the leach, tuck the tail into the sail.

When we remove all the ties to go sailing, they are gathered together and tied together with an overhand knot. This keeps them from growing legs and wandering all over the boat. When the time comes to use them, the knot is quickly undone and the ties are oriented the same way and ready to use.

Ron20324 · Sep 20, 2018

dlochner said:
Several folks have written about having sail ties of different lengths. That just complicates things. .

Different lengths are not a problem if you have them different colors, Like I said about mine which I had 13 years ago... I still remember the order of the color. Work to solve complictions- not ignore them. In the phone company, we could I.D. one of 10,000 wires if you remember the color code. Blue/Red/orange/green?/violet IIRC. But that was 18 years ago.

BlowMeAway · Sep 20, 2018

LeslieTroyer said:
I saw those but I don’t know I would go thru the minimum order in a lifetime or two - could be single use. ( 1000@ .4-.8 is $400-$800 + shipping from China).

Hi guys, sorry I’m late getting back to the discussion. Also sorry @LeslieTroyer , I was just looking for an image of what the straps look like that I’ve been using and didn’t intend to select a recommended distributor. We throw these Velcro straps out by the hundreds each year. I’m sure I can find another source that doesn’t require a minimum order. Give me a day or two to find a source or PM me and I’ll mail you a sample. The straps also have a stainless steel buckle instead of plastic. I’ve been using the same six straps for 3 years so far.

As far as @Jackdaw indicating that they are not UV resistant, I can’t actually answer that. We have always covered our mainsail once strapped on the boom. The straps are used to cinch together segmented matrix tray stacks that contain very expensive electronic components such as BGA’s, Silicon Flip Chips, large SMT passives, SOIC’S, Diodes, etc. I know first hand that the straps hold up for thousands of thermal cycles/shocks between -40 to 125 deg. C.

These straps are clearly not infinitely sizable, there is no stretch and the typical length is 24 inches. A single strap will certainly not work on a boom that is 8” or greater in width, especially to the first sail wrap nearest the mast. However, you can run a second strap through the buckle of the first, fold it over, lock down the hooked velcro lead into the full length looped velcro portion and add another 12” to the strap length. Sort of like daisy chaining the straps together.

As far as single use, no way. They’re fairly strong and last a long time. I have them in use for anything coiled or bundled like fresh water hose, shore power cord, extra fenders in the lazerette, Cindy’s brooms and deck brushes, PFD stack, sleeping bags, recently on the horseshoe buoy and even extra/spare lines.

I am in no way trying to promote a single perfect answer nor sell anything. I can get my hands on these salvageable straps and would gladly work towards finding a solution/source for those of you interested in experimenting.

dlochner · Sep 20, 2018

Ron20324 said:
Different lengths are not a problem if you have them different colors,

But then you have to remember the color sequence......

LeeandRick · Sep 20, 2018

Just get rid of the sail ties altogether and build one of these things. I don't think they look that great while sailing. But when we return to the dock my buddy, with one, is drinking beer watching me put covers on.

BlowMeAway · Sep 20, 2018

Perhaps the mnemonic for resistor color coding? I have one that I can’t share, but clearly remember since 10th grade.

genec · Sep 20, 2018

Will Gilmore said:
Walmart, in camping supplies. Exactly what everyone is talking about here. Pre-made, cinchable, available everywhere and only $1.98
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Outdoor-Products-Lashing-Strap-6/17017890

-Will (Dragonfly)

How well do they stand up to UV... I find plastic like that tends to get brittle quite quickly.

Will Gilmore · Sep 20, 2018

genec said:
How well do they stand up to UV... I find plastic like that tends to get brittle quite quickly.

I don't know. I use them back packing, they have no trouble holding together and up, a 50 lb pack. I can't used them on my sailboat yet. My plan is to flip them over the top of the boom, buckle them underneath, cinch snug, and keep them mostly under the sail cover. The convenience and price of WalMart, keep a couple extras and replace as needed. Been using the same ones, plus additional for 4 or 5 years. I have no complaints and this type of buckles are used on all kinds of outdoor equipment. Jackdaw is probably right, but I haven't known sail ties to require a lot of strength. If the UV causes one or two to breakdown, I wouldn't expect a disaster.

-Will (Dragonfly)

Joe Blizzard · Sep 21, 2018

dlochner said:
Looking back over this thread it seems those who own larger boats, above 27' prefer flat web for sail ties and those with smaller boats use different methods.

I think you're onto something there. I use the bungee loops with a ball on my little boat, and haven't had any painful experiences or lost any yet. Mine are longer than the ones pictured and fit fairly loosely around my sail and boom. Got them from a kayak outfitter as I recall.

Jacktar · Sep 21, 2018

Well centipede is same idea except nothing to stow away and is always ready for a quick drop and capture of the main. Really pays off for single handing. Nothing like watching one of your sail ties slide over the side and float away while you are trying to drop and stow the main.

dlochner · Sep 21, 2018

Jacktar said:
Nothing like watching one of your sail ties slide over the side and float away while you are trying to drop and stow the main.

We've not had that problem. Keep the sail ties aligned, i.e., all the loops on the same side and drape them around your neck. Grab one, lift, not pull, and wrap it around the sail.

When we have had difficulties with flaking and securing a mainsail it has been mostly due to a lack of proper preparation. The more stable the boom is, the easier it is to flake. Tighten the topping lift, tighten the main sheet, center the traveller, then drop the main. Miss a step and the boom is swinging around and you're asking for a swimming lesson.

Some folks start flaking from the aft end, others like my wife prefer to start at the mast. My preference is to start at the aft end and work forward. Sometimes you have to defer to the crew's preference.

Ward H · Sep 23, 2018

dlochner said:
Keep the sail ties aligned, i.e., all the loops on the same side and drape them around your neck. Grab one, lift, not pull, and wrap it around the sail.

When we have had difficulties with flaking and securing a mainsail it has been mostly due to a lack of proper preparation. The more stable the boom is, the easier it is to flake. Tighten the topping lift, tighten the main sheet, center the traveller, then drop the main. Miss a step and the boom is swinging around and you're asking for a swimming lesson.

This! Works well for us.
Ours are 6' long. I can grab the tale from the companionway to pull them off when ready to raise the main.

Ron20324 · Sep 23, 2018

I'm surprised no one has suggested to recycle! Take the cover off of rope, used or new, and use them for ties. Cauterize the ends. Many colors, any length. Make 9, and you have a whip

dlochner · Sep 23, 2018

Ron20324 said:
I'm surprised no one has suggested to recycle! Take the cover off of rope, used or new, and use them for ties. Cauterize the ends. Many colors, any length. Make 9, and you have a whip

Oh, those become fender whips and things my wife complains about taking up space in the garage and lockers on the boat.

Tally Ho · Sep 23, 2018

LeeandRick said:
Just get rid of the sail ties altogether and build one of these things....when we return to the dock my buddy, with one, is drinking beer watching me put covers on.

I have used webbing and like that. I have used straps with bucks...they tended to break. I have used bungee cords, but they are tight on the sail and tend to loose their elasticity after a while.

I added a Mackpack to my O’Day 322 and would never go back to a conventional cover.

I am the guy enjoying a beer about 5 minutes after tying up the boat...sail drops into the cover on the boom, and I can usually have her covered, zipped up, and all lines stowed nicely away before I even get to the slip.

And I don’t think she looks too bad under sail either.

Greg

shemandr · Sep 23, 2018

dlochner said:
Some folks start flaking from the aft end, others like my wife prefer to start at the mast.

I'm a start at the mast guy. For me it's so much easier. As each slug comes down just slap the sailcloth to the opposite side (You don't even have to do that). All the aft guy has to do is follow and pull the flakes out to remove folds. Maybe stop halfway to put a sail tie on. Even if the sail slides off, if the flakes are in order all you have to do is put them back on the boom. Starting aft seems to me like trying to drive a car backwards.

dlochner · Sep 23, 2018

shemandr said:
I'm a start at the mast guy. For me it's so much easier. As each slug comes down just slap the sailcloth to the opposite side (You don't even have to do that). All the aft guy has to do is follow and pull the flakes out to remove folds. Maybe stop halfway to put a sail tie on. Even if the sail slides off, if the flakes are in order all you have to do is put them back on the boom. Starting aft seems to me like trying to drive a car backwards.

So, I just mentioned to my wife that we had about 60 posts on sail ties and flaking a main sail. She just shook her head.....

She is the chief sail flaker on Second Star and she volunteered that she puts all the ties around her neck oriented in the same direction and tosses the end w/out the loop over first. She starts at the front of the sail and works aft. I am a start at the aft end and work forward. She asked why? And then why I start at the forward end. Here's the answer I gave, more or less.

Starting at the aft end allows you to get the smallest part of the sail under control. As you work forward there is is sail to manage. When you get to the luff, most of the sail is secured and under control; easier this way.

Now this start at the leach and work forward works well with sails that have taken a set, i.e., the luff flakes pretty much automatically, however, a new sail needs to be trained to flake properly, i.e., one fold to starboard, one to port and so on. Susan came on board and took over the sail flaking responsibility about the time I had purchased a new mainsail for our old boat. In order to get it to flake properly, it was necessary to start at the luff and work aft. Now we have a 25 year old main sail with full length battens and lazy jacks, the sail practically flakes itself, so starting at the aft end makes more sense.

We both agreed that if this subject generates ~60 posts, it is going to be a long winter.....

justsomeguy · Sep 23, 2018

shemandr said:
I'm a start at the mast guy.

That's just crazy talk!

shemandr · Sep 23, 2018

dlochner said:
Starting at the aft end allows you to get the smallest part of the sail under control. As you work forward there is is sail to manage. When you get to the luff, most of the sail is secured and under control; easier this way.

With all due respect, if you start at the luff the sail is already down. There is no sail to manage. I cannot see the argument that starting from the leech the smallest area of the sail is controlled. You want the largest area of the sail controlled the fastest. Easier is in the eye of the beholder. But I've been frustrated watching aft flakers screw around with the sail while we mast flakers would have had it bagged and tagged and already enjoying a beer.
Your Mrs is right. It's going to be a long winter - they all are. Give her a tip of my hat.