LONGER lengths of anchor-lead chain

[dlochner]

@DianaOfBurlington thanks for clarifying the reasoning behind your request.

The Hookers are really nice-- heavily built, good-sized (unlike the Seachoice substitutes, which are junk), and the price point is excellent.

The only Hooker anchor I was criticizing was the one with rod and ring shank that is easily reversible, fine for a lunch hook, but that's about it. The other solid shaft hookers that are more like Danforths are probably fine, I have not had any experience with them to render a valid comment.

I dislike Fortress anchors as much as you guys all hate coated chain. Aluminum is the very stupidest thing for an anchor, for which weight is the saving grace, even more than is shape.

The Fortress I have is not my primary anchor, the primary is a Rocna on an all chain rode. I wanted a second anchor that was easy to store and if I have to use it as a kedge, easy to set with a dingy. I also have a good sized Danforth (a real one) but that is difficult to store.

Usually the chain lead beats it to the bottom; and then what do you have? --no set (even a potential tangle).

Hadn't thought of this. When I anchor I let the chain out slowly by hand, I can usually feel when the anchor hits the bottom. This could be why Fortress recommends fairly short chains, only 6 to 12 feet, with a minimum of 6 feet for every 25 feet of water.

Time to do some more research on chain lengths. Your thoughts?

 

[Ron20324]

Good to know. Thanks

I just came back from BaconSail.com store. They have 1/2 inch 3-strand for 99, 8-plait is double that, 1.99. 1/2, 5/8, 3/4/. The Mantus swivels for 1/4-5/16 IIRC $52, for 5/16-3/8, $83-ish.

 

[JimInPB]

Strange, at Home Depot, the 8-plait costs less than the 3-strand.

 

[jssailem]

Provisioning a sail boat is a personal experience. It is a series of compromises based on our conditions and our desires. Your concepts all make sense for you and your boat with the added context.

Give us some pictures and let us know how you make out. Neat to meet a relative of the famous Cherubini..

 

[JimInPB]

You guys are all negative about it! If I have to I'll just paint the darn stuff....

I've done that before. It helps, but it doesn't last.

The epoxy coated chain links tend to have coating failures where the links meet while under load. They also chip when dragged over sharp rocks. The all one piece plastic coatings don't often fail where the links meet, but they do suffer the same outside edge abrasion issues. They also crack sometimes when people try to bend them at too sharp of an angle.

...
I dislike Fortress anchors as much as you guys all hate coated chain. Aluminum is the very stupidest thing for an anchor, for which weight is the saving grace, even more than is shape. It is made of machined, not forged, parts, too many of them, with too many bolts and nuts and connectors, all easily damaged, bent, and loosened. ...

I really like the Fortress for certain things, but I share your distrust of it in other situations. When I am working on a mark boat, where I expect to be setting & retrieving an anchor 10+ times over the course of a few hours, with no tide change expected, I really like them. If I am fishing over structure in 100+ feet of water, & have to pull the anchor up by hand, I really like them. If I am racing a small boat in an area where I want to have an anchor on board just in case, but I don't want to add a lot of weight, I really like them. They are not my first choice for an overnight on the hook anchor. I also don't trust them to get a good bite in certain bottom types. I've had to cut away a Fortress when I was in a situation where I didn't have time to work it loose from the bottom, but I have not yet had one pull out on me once it was properly set. I have not had issues with the fasteners loosening up.

 

[jssailem]

Do you guys have a store that serves arborists or climbing businesses? I have a company here in the PacNW Name is WESTECH. They have sales on new line of all types. There costs are terrific for quality line. Sometimes looking to other industries is a savings over the marine industry.
I just paid $57 for a 87 ft length of “end of the roll” 1/2” double braid Nylon rope for dock lines. Had an evening of eye splicing and end whipping new dock lines. Always fun to exercise my seamanship skills.

 

[thinwater]

... I have limitations (due to the boat size) on both weight and space to store a lot of chain. I'd be happy to have all-chain rode if I could; but I can't; so there you have it. The chain has to lie along the toerail where, if not painted or coated, it will rust, rattle. and help damage and corrode the toerail. Hence the question.

Unlike most (all?) of you, I have rode lockers aft of the V-berth, where they belong for both weight and balance. I can raise the anchor from standing in the foredeck hatch (manually). The chain has to extend from the roller (and chock) to the hawse pipes. That's about 8 ft, minimum....

Another solution is the cover the chain with 2-inch tubular webbing. I do this to protect the splice and to protect the first part of the rope from bottom chafe, but I also covered some of the chain to reduce topside scratching, since I don't have a bow roller.

My curse on this boat is a shallow anchor well. Only folding anchors need apply.

(Corsair F-24)

I've had cruising cats with all chain and even lighter boats with very little chain. It's all about matching the tackle to the boat and where you sail.

 

[jssailem]

It's all about matching the tackle to the boat and where you sail.

 

[JimInPB]

... The chain has to lie along the toerail where, if not painted or coated, it will rust, rattle. and help damage and corrode the toerail. Hence the question....

Have you considered stainless chain?

 

[All U Get]

Or maybe using Dyneema instead of chain. Thinwater may know of some testing, but if there is no chain, there's no rust.

 

[dlochner]

Or maybe using Dyneema instead of chain. Thinwater may know of some testing, but if there is no chain, there's no rust.

In the current issue of Practical Sailor there is an article about using Dyneema instead of chain. The article identifies a number of factors to consider and in certain situations it works well, in others perhaps not so well.

Coincidentally, some of the concerns raised in this thread about anchoring are mentioned in the article, this issue of PS probably went to press a month ago.

 

[JimInPB]

It's my understanding that the chain is attached to the anchor for two main reasons. One is abrasion resistance. The other is the added weight that improves the cantanary angle. When you replace chain with Dyneema, the loss of weight would be my biggest concern. The anchor's bite on the bottom would be greatly reduced, at best.

 

[dlochner]

It's my understanding that the chain is attached to the anchor for two main reasons. One is abrasion resistance. The other is the added weight that improves the cantanary angle. When you replace chain with Dyneema, the loss of weight would be my biggest concern. The anchor's bite on the bottom would be greatly reduced, at best.

The PS article did address that concern.

 

[jssailem]

@JimInPB Chain helps to orient the anchor so that the flukes will bite into the bottom.
At one time anchors were just a big weight.

But we boaters got smarter and we figured a way for the big weight to also maybe stick in the rocks or the mud...

Progress to today and we have the plow and the Fluke anchors that are lighter weight but dig in to the bottom.

While they dig in better it only works if the anchor can be dragged along the bottom. If you pull it by a rope it will come right out. So you lay down chain. The Chain when pulled will (because of the weight) pull the anchor along the bottom. The Flukes will get oriented down and the if all works correctly the anchor will set.
Here is a great video link to Steve Goodwin's tests.

Can you set an anchor with just rode no chain? Absolutely.
The chain will just aid in getting the anchor to set more quickly and solid.

 

[thinwater]

The PS article is about kedging and some V-anchor situations, where a Dyneema leader has major handling advantages. Chafe is a minor issue, since the rode is not sawing, and catenary is less relevant when kedging hard or in severe storms in shallow waters; the chain would be straight anyway and the rode will typically be mostly rope anyway. It was a special situation discussion, nothing more.

The idea was developed while testing anchors; we would routinely anchor with 2 big Fortress anchors to hold the boat still, while dragging smaller anchors toward the boat using cockpit winches and tackles. Handling chain for the second anchor was always a big pain, whereas with a Dyneema leader it was easy. We also got real practice extracting deeply buried anchors!

Another thought is that you could use ~ 15' of chain followed by a 15-30' Dyneema leader covered with a chafe guard. Though it does not add weight (both a plus and a minus), it is certainly many, many times more cut resistant than nylon, though not as good as chain. I'm experimenting with this approach now. You can see it in post #27.

Day-to-day single-hook anchoring is totally different. Although it would be nice to ditch the chain, using at least some seems to be the most practical answer.

 

[JimInPB]

...
Here is a great video link to Steve Goodwin's tests.

...

Lots of good first hand information there. Thanks for posting.

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

No way in this world I'd do without chain anchoring in coral, as in the keys and Bahamas, or oyster shell as on the gulf coast.. You dyneema, or nylon rode would be junk after just a few encounters. I'll keep the chain ..

 

[dlochner]

@DianaOfBurlington If you are still looking for the coated anchor chain I found a source. Yesterday I was in the local chandlery saw that they had a barrel full of it. If you call them, I'm sure they will ship you the length you want. https://www.boatworks-ltd.com

 

[pateco]

@JimInPB Here is a great video link to Steve Goodwin's tests.

Can you set an anchor with just rode no chain? Absolutely.
The chain will just aid in getting the anchor to set more quickly and solid.

No one ever seems to test the anchor I got with my boat. Super Max Anchor.

I found a post by @Maine Sail in another forum Have you ever had a Danforth type anchor break out..?

He mentions that he owns a SuperMax, but does not give an opinion. Anyone else own one of these?

 

[DianaOfBurlington]

Strange, at Home Depot, the 8-plait costs less than the 3-strand.

I make is a general rule to avoid buying anything for a vessel I would term a 'yacht' at HoDePo. There is a reason 'marine-grade' rope is what it is.