I have a Beneteau 361 with a failing engine (compression issues) 27 HP Westerbeke. Thoughts on rebuild vs. new and if new, what engine do you prefer (and size).
thanks,
Mark
thanks,
Mark
Engine is caput
- Thread starter mshimota
- Start date
I would consider rebuilding it myself because I like doing things like that and because of the cost savings. I would not recommend this to just anyone. It's a big task with lots of opportunities to screw it up. Otherwise, the easiest thing to do would be to replace it with the same engine.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 23,179
Old and outdated is not all bad. I have a 1973 Perkins 4107. It is a beast. It is also like a Timex watch.
But as all things they need parts. And
is a factor to consider.
@mshimota What have you tried to get you to the decision that this engine is dead?
The Beta offering in that size is quite possibly a drop in replacement, but stating that there are compression issues does not indicate much of anything in regards to the condition of the engine. If it simply needs rings, then that is fairly simple, but if the engine is worn out then a top to bottom rebuild may be out of the range of cost effective. The other consideration is use, how much do you motor in a year?
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 23,179
Thanks,
rings will be looked at and likely replaced (not be me) and a run through by an excellent mechanic. The boat is a 2000 yr version with approximately 1500 hrs on it. I'm the 3rd owner and from what I know it was in charter the first 6-7 yrs of her life. I 'm looking at 10-15 yrs of use and so I'd like to get it right the first time.
rings will be looked at and likely replaced (not be me) and a run through by an excellent mechanic. The boat is a 2000 yr version with approximately 1500 hrs on it. I'm the 3rd owner and from what I know it was in charter the first 6-7 yrs of her life. I 'm looking at 10-15 yrs of use and so I'd like to get it right the first time.
If it’s Kubota based there are tons of parts out there to rebuild them cheap. Buy new cylinders, pistons and complete heads for 2k. Pay a shop to take it to shortblock stage, another k. Misc parts and tools another k. And you have as good as new for 4 boat bucks.
Nothing against Beta that would be a serious option for me, but nothing is dropin when changing makes/models of engines, even if it’s jus shift levers and exhaust.
Les
Nothing against Beta that would be a serious option for me, but nothing is dropin when changing makes/models of engines, even if it’s jus shift levers and exhaust.
Les
Compression may be only bad valves.. if no one has set the valve clearance, that is where a good mechanic will start.. Westerbeke marinized a commercial engine so if you/your mechanic can find what the base engine is, you can source the parts at a much more reasonable price.. The trick is to not let the parts people know that it is going into a Westerbeke conversion; Westerbeke struck some very strict parts sourcing rules with their engine suppliers and most parts guys know that.. Some of their 4 cylinder engines are Isuzu tractor engines but I am not familiar with their later machines.
Beta will customize an engine to be "drop in" if ya ask.
Beta will customize an engine to be "drop in" if ya ask.
Big $$$ difference comes to mind. Be practical, how do you use your motor? Going to a different engine will likely require installation modifications and adaptations. What are the compression issues? Will a top end rebuild restore adequate compression? Is the engine running? Have you tried a thicker viscosity oil with additives. Heavier oil increases compression from worn piston rings and can extend the useful life of engine for a time depending on usage. Do you have a good and trusted mechanic, and the time for a rebuild job? Get cost figures for your different options and then decide based on your reliability requirements, future plans for the boat, anticipated performance, maintenance requirements and cost.
The OP notes that the engine has 1500 hours.
1500...it's a baby, hasn't even reached puberty.
Before tossing this engine, as many of you have said, we'd need to know much, much more about the issues that prompted this post. Like a more thorough explanation of "...a failing engine (compression issues)..."
Real numbers on compression, did the OP measure this personally or did someone else, methodology for measurement...
My little 21 hp M25 has 3434 engine hours and is 32 years old. I change the oil. It purrs.
There would have had to be some serious, serious abuse for an engine with 1500 hours even with chartering.
Good luck, whatever you choose to do.
1500...it's a baby, hasn't even reached puberty.
Before tossing this engine, as many of you have said, we'd need to know much, much more about the issues that prompted this post. Like a more thorough explanation of "...a failing engine (compression issues)..."
Real numbers on compression, did the OP measure this personally or did someone else, methodology for measurement...
My little 21 hp M25 has 3434 engine hours and is 32 years old. I change the oil. It purrs.
There would have had to be some serious, serious abuse for an engine with 1500 hours even with chartering.
Good luck, whatever you choose to do.
There's a good enough reason all by itself to go through it. It's a relationship between cost and use. If you're on a mooring and rarely motor, then spending 20k for a new one probably doesn't make sense, but if you're going to motor across Superior even once a year, you want absolute reliable. I had an International 6ltr version of an F250 that had leaky head gaskets. (they don't call them 6-leakers for nothing) The rebuild was worth more than the truck, at over 300k on the odometer, but I need the truck to haul the boat. Cost/benefit favoured a newer truck. Your math is different, but the same.
Ha. Upgraded the shift lever from the Johnson bar to the more current side arm that Edson offers through CD. Found really quickly that the arm travel is reversed. Who knew. Not everybody has the capability to make a crossover jig....
That's baloney. Westerbeke still sells and supports Westerbeke and Universal marine diesel propulsion engines, as well as generators of all kinds. They use the same Kubota and Mitsubishi base engines as Beta. Yanmar make their own, but are also based on their much larger tractor engine market products.
Yes, Westerbeke parts are expensive, but no much more than what I have seen from Beta or Yanmar; 'though I haven't done an exhaustive comparison. If you can determine which Kubota or Mitsubishi engine the Westerbeke is based on you can acquire much cheaper parts, but at the peril of voiding your warranty.
Service and support are excellent. Here in New England Hansen Marine, a distributor, does a superb job. You can call them and actually speak with Bob Hansen about any issues, as I have; he knows everything about these.
Replace it now, and have no worries for the next 10-15 years. Guaranteed it won't be "just" rings to fix the issue correctly, plus all the associated items that will need replacing. You are at a crossroads, spend it now or spend it later. Needing rings after only 1500hrs is probably an indication of how ( read: not good) it was maintained and used during its charter time.
Beneteaus of that era transitioned from Westerbeke propulsion engines to YANMAR engines. By about 2003 they were all yanmar. I looked at versions of my boat with both engines and decided I wanted a yanmar. So after paying a mechanic to inspect and evaluate, possibly tuning it up, I would be looking to drop in a yanmar.
Thank you for the kind words about my boat too, which is easily in the absolute top tier maintenance, presentation and operational category of the vessels around here, and that includes the much loved, noisy, stinky, old Westerbeke that it came with.
That's fairly "new" for a diesel. The compression issue may be easily fixed. It could be that the head was never properly re-torqued early in its life; could be that the valves need adjustment, or perhaps the exhaust valves need replacement. Could be that the cylinders are glazed from a lot of low load operation, like battery charging.
Is it smoking?
Is it smoking?
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 23,179
Now you know Mark, we are a diverse opinionated and avid DIY group with time, experience and some money that give freely of our information. On any problem we may agree or disagree. What is always a constant is the boat is your boat. Only you know how you want to use it and in what waters you feel comfortable sailing.
If you are planning to sail waters that have fickle winds and will put you at risk without a reliable motor then the idea of a "New" motor is appealing. Some here have had the opportunity to replace their motor. Non so far have accomplished the task without some bruised knuckles or gnashing of teeth and a few colorful words shared.
If I have learned one thing from this great group of sailors it is that when asking a question I will get information to improve the decision making I make on my boat.
If you are planning to sail waters that have fickle winds and will put you at risk without a reliable motor then the idea of a "New" motor is appealing. Some here have had the opportunity to replace their motor. Non so far have accomplished the task without some bruised knuckles or gnashing of teeth and a few colorful words shared.
If I have learned one thing from this great group of sailors it is that when asking a question I will get information to improve the decision making I make on my boat.