Mast Ladder - Concept of Design

[Brian D]

I'm not an engineer. I have no train to drive. But I love trying to figure out how to do something differently.

So I saw this video of a guy building a mast ladder using wire rope and rubber hose. Then I got a thought of using PVC pipe but it would roll under my feet. Not good.

Then I had THIS idea of using PVC T's to hold the pipe. Here is what it looks like.

This is just a first attempt to see if it is feasible. The pattern is left side wire rope goes thru upper left T, across pipe and exits out right side bottom of T. Right side wire rope enter at the top of the T, across the pipe, exits bottom of left T. And so forth and so on.

Right now there are no stoppers on the wire rope so if I put weight on the rung the wire rope gets pulled thru. So each cross of the cable in the pipe will have one of the compression clamps like at the top of the rope.

Wire rope is rated at 1700 lbs breaking strength but I am sure the safe working load is lower, but still strong to support a person.

Thoughts?

 

[dlochner]

@Brian D interesting idea. A few quick thoughts.

Use dynema instead of wire rope, less expensive, lighter, and folds up neater than SS wire.

What about using reducing tees, that would eliminate some slop as the wire/rope enters the step?

Or end caps on each step with holes for the wire/rope?

 

[Will Gilmore]

It looks like it would do the job. Definitely cap the line from pulling through. Not only did you want the steps to stay, but if a PCV rung broke and your leg went through the opening, you don't want it to cinch tight.

- Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Brian D]

Very interesting on the use of Dyneema rope. Very strong but no one can pinpoint a safe working load due to the characteristics of the rope.

The Ts are not needed. They were there just because I had them. LOL I also thought about end caps but that is getting a little more complicated. But they might negate the use of compression clamps. Might being the operative word.

And... I know there are some out there who are saying, just buy a Mastmate and be done with it. This is more funner LOL

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

So far so good just as it is. Keep the PVC pipe heavy walled (schedule 80) to ensure it stays rigid with your weight.

Now ................ to keep it away from the mast so you're not stubbing your toes on the way up.

 

[thinwater]

If you place your weight on the end of a rung, will it not slide on the Amsteel a few inches, until it becomes the low point in the loop? The rungs are not fixed to the Amsteel. This will make climbing tiring.

Since it will not fit in the mast track, it will be set flying. Stability will require a 500-pound minimum pre-load (I use a Mast Mate flying, so I am pretty sure of this). That adds some compression to the rungs and may make them too weak

Those rungs are going to be a little hard on the feet with sneakers (not while climbing, but when perched at the top for 30 minutes).
---
For all this negativity, I do like your thinking. A'd make up some 4-step models with parachute cord and play with them climbing. Then you will know.

 

[Brian D]

Good points all around. Believe me I have thought about many of them. Especially the standing in place and fly away. For my mind, flat and heavy sole boots are a must. Something that will distribute the area of the foot vs the area of the rung. On my regular ladder at home I wear Uggs. These are the most comfortable boot for working on a ladder. They are flat bottom and the sole is very thick, well padded.

The fly away would be a simple fix. Like I said this was just a concept. The actual bottom of the ladder would have loops just like the top. It would be tied to the mast step and pulled tight to ensure the ladder is rigged. The wire rope would provided the rigidness since it can withstand the pull.

I chose wire rope because I have it for my antennas. If I had webbing I would try that also, but then again it would just be another Mastmate copy but with rigid rungs.

The rungs are 12" in width so there really should be no gnashing of toes on the mast. But I have not tested this yet so I cannot say. But yes, I am concerned about the side of the rung drooping due to weight. I have to clamp where the two wires meet.

Much playing around. I am just presenting this for those who want to solo climb but do not have any equipment. This just an idea on how to make a mast ladder.

added this image without the bottom rung so you can see how the wires cross.

 

[Will Gilmore]

PVC bends with heat pretty easily. You could mold a flat foot pad in the top.

- Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Will Gilmore]

Brian,
I've been trying to think of a use for this new technique I came across the other day. Your ladder may be just the project too use this on.

- Will (Dragonfly)

 

[JimInPB]

Small radius 90⁰ bends, significantly reduce the strength of wire ropes. 10:1 working load ratio MIGHT be enough to overcome the issue.

How about you get some ¼” double braid line, run it through close-fit holes that you drill through the PVC pipe & just use figure 8 knots below the rungs of the ladder on each side?

Why not just run the lines straight down? Why run them across the inside of the rungs?

If you use large & heavy enough PVC, you could split each rung down the center & make arc shaped rungs that would stack well together & fit in a small storage space. This would be good for storage, but would not be as anti-spin stable as drilling holes through both top & bottom of a full circle.

Aluminum tubing in place of might also generate a nice finished product

 

[JimInPB]

...
The rungs are 12" in width so there really should be no gnashing of toes on the mast. But I have not tested this yet so I cannot say. But yes, I am concerned about the side of the rung drooping due to weight. I have to clamp where the two wires meet.
...

I'll bet that no matter how wide you make those rungs, the ladder will still swing to center your toes against the mast when weight is applied. I see little advantage in making the rungs much more than twice your boot width.

 

[Brian D]

Jim, I think drilling into the PVC could weaken the joint. I wouldn't have a lot of confidence ascending. The 12" width is so one can place both feet at the same level. It emulates a standard ladder. The criss-cross of the wire is to add strength so the PVC is not bearing all the weight.

Unfortunately this is all the wire rope I have. So I can't build a working model. But the concept is there and I would think rope or webbing could be used the help reduce the weight. I would still criss-cross within the PVC for strength.

 

[Joe]

What do you do when you get to the top? Those rungs are not wide enough for two feet in heavy bottom boots, even if they were your stance would be like standing at attention. You'd need to bring up a pair of web loops to stand straddling the mast while you work, or hoist the bosun's chair..

Although your concept is creative, rope ladders are very difficult to manage because they are so flexible and unwieldly. That's what makes the mast mate so successful.. its complete attachment to the mast creates a very stable base.

I also think simple flat, hardwood or resin steps would serve your feet better. The boarding ladder on my boat is stainless tubing and it hurts your feet to climb up barefoot.

However, I would be the last person to discourage you.... this feed back your getting will help you, I'm sure. Keep at it.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Whatever you use, be sure to accompany it with a completely independent safety line.

https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/mast-climbing.179573/

 

[JimInPB]

I would still criss-cross within the PVC for strength.

I'm not seeing how the criss cross adds strength. I am still seeing the PVC supported at the two ends & loaded near the center. Perhaps I am missing something?

If I was looking for more strength, I would probably put a snug fitting wooden dowel inside the PVC, or use 2 different sizes of PVC pipe, one inside the other.

 

[JimInPB]

... rope ladders are very difficult to manage because they are so flexible and unwieldly. ...

+1

 

[Jalepeno]

I posted this in June 2016:

"I use a Mast Mate webbing ladder that goes up the main sail track using the main halyard (tied not shackled). For safety, I use my climbing harness attached with webbing to a Petzl Tibloc ascender with carabiner and a webbing belt around the mast. Before I got the Mast mate the used the harness, two ascenders with carabiners and webbing (one on foot loops and the other on the harness) to inchworm up and down the mast. This worked but was very slow and tiring. Always have a safety line and safety belt (and a spotter if possible)."

 

[Brian D]

This goes without saying that safety is paramount. (I always wanted to say that. LOL)

 

[thinwater]

... rope ladders are very difficult to manage because they are so flexible and unwieldly. That's what makes the mast mate so successful.. its complete attachment to the mast creates a very stable base.

I've used a Mast Mate both in the tack and free-flying. On my last boat (PDQ 32 catamran) I usually set it free, because it was faster that way. In the track is a little more stable, but free is OK so long as you tension it hard with a winch and wear a climbing harness. Put 500 pounds on it and it doesn't move much. This does NOT actually change the strength requirement, because pretension and climber weight are not additive and the pretension should fall within the WLL.

I suppose this depends on your comfort and skill level climbing.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I'd never trust PVC pipe. Inserting a tight-fitting wood dowel would be necessary.