Fastest Hull Design and Rig

Nov 1, 2017
635
Hunter 28.5 Galveston
Hey Everyone,

Good afternoon! I wanted to ask everyone today what they think is the fastest hull design and rig; keep in mind that the boat would have to be fast both upwind, on a reach, and on a run as well. What do you think?
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Nov 8, 2007
1,612
Hunter 27_75-84 Sandusky Harbor Marina, Ohio
That’s easy. Lifting foils with a wingsail main and blade jib.

Wicked hard to sail, but clearly the fastest top speed of any design.
 
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Nov 6, 2006
10,195
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
A really general question.. But.. Hydro/aerodynamics will lead ya to long and skinny.. For the hull, low wetted area and a good profile while heeled 10-15 deg..For the keel, long and skinny (high aspect ratio) is best for efficiency.. that is defined by lift generated over drag created.. .. sails are the same mostly as keels.. high efficiency looks like long skinny.. think wing sails on AC Catamarans.. Sails have a practical max height of around 50-60 feet for bridge clearance.. sometimes less.. so lots of times they aren't very high aspect ratio.. and they get force by piling on more sail area.. soooo your turquoise boat in the computer rendering will be "fast" compared to anything else in the pictures if fitted with a high aspect ratio sail set with lots of area.
Note that "long and skinny" does not preclude the wide sterns that we see today.. the heeled shape that the water "sees" is kinda long/skinny
 
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Oct 19, 2017
8,107
O'Day Mariner 19 Littleton, NH
Right behind Vestas sailrocket 2 is

Antoine Albeau is the fastest windsurfer in the world after posting a run at 53.27 knots in Namibia.
Apparently Namibia is faster.

40 years ago, when I was in high school, the world speed record was broken and held for years by a sailboard. For monohull sailing, I give it to the boats that look more and more like a sailboard. Just look at where the design trends have slowly been going. Flat bottom, hard chine, fin keels, no rocker. They ride on top of the water more than through it. I would go centerboard for the reasons stated by rgranger and to allow for better control over center of lateral resistance. No going fast of you have to compensate for poor balance with your rudder.

Cats have proven fast because they have less wetted surface and better righting moment. Their skinny hulls bend the water around them less, so less energy wasted on displacement.

I would go with wide and flat in a monohull to stay shallow and maintain better stability. The hard chine would equal skinny when heeling.

The biggest problem with this assessment is that Simon asks about all points of sail. That means every hull is going to have its deficits on one or more of those points compared to others. When running with the wind, low wetted surface is the champ, when reaching, good righting moment is called for, etc. There needs to be some calculation that accounts for time/distance spent at each tack.

The solid wing sail is very efficient and when running with the wind, a big shute can't be beat. Fortunately, both can exist on one rig.

The very best, most efficient sailboat, however, is a seaworthy, cruiser that isn't too deep to get into the best bays, is wide and stable at sea, has an easily adjustable sail plan and room to accomidate the supplies, captain, crew and guests without asking for too much sacrifice in comfort for ocean crossing.
:dancing:

- Will (Dragonfly)
 
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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
This is kinda silly question, and if you don't limit it to non-foiling monohulls it's ridiculous.

If we ARE talking monohulls, then canting fin keels rule the show. Centerboards are for DINGHYS only. You need righting moment, and above say 24 feet you have an impossible time supporting a powerful rig with just the weight of crew hiking.
 
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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Check this out, canting keel and center board.

The CB also cants, but it stays vertical instead of moving to windward.

- Will (Dragonfly)
Will. That's a Radio Controlled Model for christsake. They play under different limitations. nobody has built a real boat like that. Many canters use dagger boards in conjunction with a ballasted keel. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.
 
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Oct 19, 2017
8,107
O'Day Mariner 19 Littleton, NH
Why not try a multihull?
Multihulls are fast, sea worthy, stable and can be built to accomidate a good comfortible cruising layout. They may be the overall best on all points of sail. A large staysail and a tall skinny main would be my preference, but a crab claw rig might be interesting too. You could, if it were a fairly big cat, put a mast on each hull.

- Will (Dragonfly)
 
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Jun 8, 2004
10,536
-na -NA Anywhere USA
A friend of mine years ago who actively raced and won in the Mediteranian said the design of any boat is only one factor. Others included the knowledge of the sailing area, condition of gear and boat, experience of the skipper and of course the experience of the skipper and crew working together along with a few other things. With that said, I am staying out of the rest of the comments.
 
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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
A friend of mine years ago who actively raced and won in the Mediteranian said the design of any boat is only one factor. Others included the knowledge of the sailing area, condition of gear and boat, experience of the skipper and of course the experience of the skipper and crew working together along with a few other things. With that said, I am staying out of the rest of the comments.
Whenever you look at a theoretical question, good scientific discipline tells you to assume constant states for other variables. Otherwise there is no way to isolate what you are looking at. Of course any boat can be sailed like crap, and of course you can sail fast in the wrong direction. This type of point serves no benefit.

The sailing community has long accepted that fin keels (canting if allowed) is the fastest non-foiling design for monohulls. On all points of sail. It generates the most lift, has the longest righting arm, at the lowest overall displacement. That's what makes boats fast. Asking this type of question is like going to a car forum and asking what kind of brakes are better, disc or drum. That has been long settled, and making uneducated comments around the point clouds other peoples understanding as they try to learn. So do comments that would address the brake question by saying it comes down to the driver.
 
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Jun 8, 2004
10,536
-na -NA Anywhere USA
Jackdaw;
If it was you and others with great skills talking about designs, I would never broach this at all but then there are many that I have run into all over that have said their boat is designed to be fast yet they are last. That is why I said that. Like I said you know your stuff and if we were alone talking about designs that would never have been said. Anyway, I still work on sailboats but my hobby is model railroading and that is one thing Meriachee and I have in common. As for Kermit, he has enjoyed our neck of the woods and I am amazed at Rgranger how he finds time to go sailing with all that he has to do. Gotta run but enjoy what your comments here
 
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TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,769
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
Hey Everyone,

Good afternoon! I wanted to ask everyone today what they think is the fastest hull design and rig; keep in mind that the boat would have to be fast both upwind, on a reach, and on a run as well. What do you think?
View attachment 148032 View attachment 148033

Everyone? Ok,...

None of the above sailboats, are fast. A Vespa is faster than all of them. Who would call a Vespa, fast?

Vespa jack2.jpg


The new sailboat on the left, with the deepest fin keel, is the least slow.

Speed is the most abused word, in sailing. :)