Static

May 12, 2004
1,505
Hunter Cherubini 30 New Port Richey
When hooked to shore power, I noticed some static coming from my VHF and stereo when the battery charger is actually charging. No static once it goes into float stage. I don't know if this is new as I am only on shore power once a month for a couple of days to bring my batteries back up. I've had my electrical system checked a few years ago by an ABYC licensed electrician for an unrelated issue and all came back OK. Is this something I need to attend to? If so, where do I start? Thanks.
 
Oct 19, 2017
8,119
O'Day Mariner 19 3444 Littleton, NH
Where are your grounds connected, for both radio and electrical system?

- Will (Dragonfly)
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
battery charges convert 120 volt AC to 12 volt DC using a radio noisy process. Kinda like water hammer in plumbing as they have to stop the flow in one direction each cycle of the AC but allow it to flow in the other direction the next 1/2 cycle. Installation of a cap will make the circuit malfunction so not much you can do to attenuate the RF discharge.
 
Aug 22, 2017
1,609
Hunter 26.5 West Palm Beach
battery charges convert 120 volt AC to 12 volt DC using a radio noisy process. Kinda like water hammer in plumbing as they have to stop the flow in one direction each cycle of the AC but allow it to flow in the other direction the next 1/2 cycle. Installation of a cap will make the circuit malfunction so not much you can do to attenuate the RF discharge.
Please correct me if I misunderstand you. What you seem to describe is a very old style charger that is basically a transformer with a half wave rectifier between the secondary coil & the battery to be charged. I'm not sure how adding a capacitor would make that malfunction. Adding a cap turns it into a filtered power supply, which is not necessarily a bad thing as far as I know.

The next step forward in battery charging (eons ago) was to replace the half wave rectifier with a full wave rectifier, so that instead of shutting off power for 1/2 cycle, you would instead invert the power for that half cycle & use it. rather than wasting it. This made the unfiltered DC signal half as lumpy.

After that, various types of regulators were developed. Most modern chargers for boat use now employ some form of pulse width modulated technology that operates at a much higher frequency.

All that aside, if the charger is causing noise in the radio & a bad ground is not the cause, you can probably add a band-pass shunt filter on the radio & squash the noise.
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,686
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
Disconnect the antenna and ground no alternatively to determine if it is conducted noise or radiated. Don't forget the antenna outer braid is also grounded. If its radiated noise, see above which is a good suggestion.
 
Oct 19, 2017
8,119
O'Day Mariner 19 3444 Littleton, NH
While I have degrees in computer science with a few electrical classes behind it. I'm not really up on this stuff. It is my understanding, however, that the antenna ground and the electrical system ground should be isolated from each other. Also, ferrous material shields emf so, maybe a thin steel plate between the charger and battery system and the radio and antenna.

- Will (Dragonfly)
 
Jan 11, 2014
13,997
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Lots of speculation, my bet is on an old ferro-resonant charger. Need to hear more from the OP.
 
Oct 24, 2010
2,405
Hunter 30 Everett, WA
Digital equipment use signals that are square waves. This means the trailing edge of the wave goes from some level (often 5 volts) to zero in theoretically no time. This creates a theoretically infinite frequency bandwidth. In actuality, inductance within the electrical circuits limit that range. In layman's terms, all digital equipment has the potential of causing electrical noise. This can be in the wiring and transmitted over the air. That's why if you look at equipment data plates in the US you will see a statement that it complies with FCC regulations. Having said all that: it's no surprise that you would get some interference.

There are a few ways to eliminate it. First, as someone suggested determine if it's radiated noise or from the power. If it doesn't go away when the antenna is disconnected, the issue is likely coming from the power system. If that's the case, put a filter on the power system. It may be as simple as running the VHF and stereo power through a toroidal core (google it.) This is easy and cheap and you can get them out of old junk computer power supplies. Just loop the power wire in a few turns just like it was in that old power supply.

If the noise is radiated (goes away when the antenna is disconnected), I'd be really careful to look for a bad ground. Look particularly around the charger and battery grounds. This includes any temperature monitoring as well as voltage sensing wiring which goes to the batteries. You may need to disconnect those grounds and clean them to ensure they aren't corroded between mating surfaces. If all else fails, you may need to replace the battery charger. If it were me, and I only rarely used it, after I checked all the grounds, I'd most likely turn off the VHF and stereo when charging then ignore it unless it's bothering the neighbors.

Ken
 
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Sep 15, 2013
708
Catalina 270 Baltimore
The good news is you appear to have isolated the cause of the problem. You basically have 2 routes. You can go through a RF troubleshooting process which will take you many strange places or simply replace the charger. If you choose route #1 start by cleaning and reseating your battery terminals and DC connections in the charging path. It really sounds like the charger though.
 
May 12, 2004
1,505
Hunter Cherubini 30 New Port Richey
Lots of speculation, my bet is on an old ferro-resonant charger. Need to hear more from the OP.
Charger is a Pro Mariner Pro Sport Plus 3 bank.

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/prom...y-marine-battery-charger-14152177?recordNum=3

All cables are clean and tight. First thing I checked. I really don't want to have to get behind the breaker panel if I don't have to. I will disconnect the antenna and see what happens. I'll also plug in something else that runs on 110v like a small vacuum and see what happens. I can live with this as long as there is no damage being done. I just shut off the charger while aboard if it's bothering me. As I said, I am only on shore power two to three days a month for charging purposes. Thanks for the replies. I'll get back.
 

walt

.
Jun 1, 2007
3,550
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
Sounds like you have had this set up for while and if so, has the battery charger caused the static since being new or is this something that is gradually getting worse or just all of a sudden popped up.

Generally a device like that must have an engineering sample pass some FCC part 15 emission test that has margin to account for manufacturing variation. I would guess the new unit would not have any emission problem in any even simple installation.

If its some age onset problem, could be a huge variety ranging from simply a screw holding down a circuit board to a chassis slightly coming loose to some circuit dying and having to work harder. If its some age onset problem and the static is the only issue, I would just keep using it and monitor the static. If its getting worse over time, something is going out of whack. Trying to fix something that is degrading over time with external emission filters.. just masking the problem rather than fixing it.
 

walt

.
Jun 1, 2007
3,550
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
VHF and stereo
Also, try playing the stereo with a music source that does not come in through an antenna. Ie, try the stereo with a CD or MP3 source for example.

If you still get the noise on the stereo when its not tuned to FM, could be noise on the 12 volt line going to the stereo and VHF radio created by the charger. If the charger is wired directly to the battery and the radio's are wired separately to the battery so that no wire shares the current for both charger and radio or stereo, the noise would have to be significant amplitude to not get filtered by the battery. But if you have some daisy chain 12V wiring where the same wire set is going to both the charger and the radios, much easier for noise created by the charger to create noise in the radio.
 
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Aug 22, 2017
1,609
Hunter 26.5 West Palm Beach
After reading Walt's post, I am also led to wonder how old your battery is. An older battery with significantly reduced capacity will not filter noise out of a DC system as well as it once did. Corroded battery terminals can give a similar reduction in performance.
 
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Oct 9, 2008
1,742
Bristol 29.9 Dana Point
I have the same issue. Only on AM.
And I'm using a battery powered portable.
-It gets better reception than the stereo.

If it gets too interfering, I turn off the charger. Although your situation with limited time on shorepower might be a challenge.
 
May 12, 2004
1,505
Hunter Cherubini 30 New Port Richey
Thank you all for the replies and suggestions. Went to the boat yesterday and hooked back up to shore power . Turned on the charger. Put in a thumb drive loaded with music...no static. Back to FM. I normally listen to NPR which is at the low end of the band. Static. I have a flexible wire antenna. Touched to a chainplate...less static. Move to a higher end frequency...no static. Switch to AM. Static, except when antenna is connected to chainplate. It seems the more powerful the signal the less static. Repeated all this with the charger off and a 110v fan going. Same results. Am I searching for a solution to a non existent problem? :banghead: